Repo men

[A-R]

My initials are M.C., and I tow - a lot. Hence the screen name.
While I don't do any repo's (that I know of anyway) I do tow vehicles that are parked in reserved spots or parking lots or areas that require a permit of some sort to park in. Many times I am told I don't have the right to "take someone's property" ie: the vehicle that should not be parked from where I'm towing it from. So I hope in your eyes my type of towing fits in this thread.
In my gig, I'm actually "giving" my client the use of their property (the parking spot that they paid big bucks to have reserved for them) by removing someone else's property (their car that should not have parked in my clients parking space). Thankfully, the laws regarding all of this are laid out cut and dry as the tow lobby is alive and well in Texas.

I don't think anyone is arguing that a repo man or towing outfit has the legal right to take the property -- they do. This thread started about the legality of stopping someone from taking your property, even if it turns out to be a repo man with the legal authority to seize it.

You, like the repo man, have a civil law authority to seize and remove property. But you don't have any authority to seize or remove it by using force against a person. It's illegal for you to tow a vehicle with a person inside... what are you going to do if they hop in and lock the doors? It's not legal for you to physically restrain and move a person who is in the way, so what are you going to do if they pull a "we shall not be moved" human chain around the car and/or your truck?

You've got the legal authority to do your job, but you don't have any legal authority to initiate force against someone to do it. You can persuade, intimidate, deceive, trick, charm... but you can't legally use force.

And I'll add that I don't believe you have the legal authority to trespass upon someone else's private real property to tow or repo an automobile (obviously, if the car driven by person A is illegally parked on real property owned by person B, you're legal as long as you have the permission of person B).

The whole argument to me comes down to which "right" is more important:

The right of a lender to recoup his money by reclaiming personal property.

The right of "parties in possession" (i.e. owner/renter) of real property to be free from trespass by others onto said real property.

And to a lesser degree there is question of whether it's prudent to conduct snatch-n-grab repos on public or third-party private property when doing so can look very much like theft.

[Target1911]

There are regulations specificly for the repo industry.

Some of which include...paraphrasing here.....can not defeat a locked gate....closed garage door......gate leading into gated community--however they can follow another car through the gate

There is also the laws about Third Party Disclosure that can get a repo agent hot water

They can however take said vehicle from your driveway


MOST lien holders WILL NOT tolerate a repo agent breaking the law to repo said property and usually drop the repo company at the speed of light if they do. The lein holders dont want the law suits that can follow.

[gregthehand]

Just a question that I've always wondered. If someone parks in the wrong spot or whatever and there car is towed. Not repoed just towed. When they show up to get it if they don't have money how does a tow company legally hold on to the car without a lien? I was under the impression that a Judge was the only person that could take your property and only after due process? Wouldn't the tow company have to give you your property back and then sue you in small claims court for the fees? I ask this because I've had friends get there cars towed from areas that were not marked. The tow driver just told them that they "should have known not to park there" whatever that means. If they did it on a Saturday and I'm there on Sunday surely they don't already have a lein in hand and it's my property.

I understand that many tow companies are trying to just make a buck like everyone else but there are some that are downright dirty low down people. I have seen them tell folks that they owe over $400 for a simple tow and one nights storage. NO KIDDING! So at that point how would you contest the fee? I mean if you leave it there while waiting for judgment from a magistrate that's more money in storage fees.

When I was in law enforcement I was always told, and practiced, that no matter what you couldn't deprive someone of their property. For instance I made a disturbance call one night that originally went out as a home invasion. Turned out one guy had the others guys stuff and guy one wanted it back. We had to actually let him enter the house and take what was his. So if my car gets towed and the guy wants to charge me some outrageous fee what's to keep me from calling the cops and saying I want my property back?

Just curious and this is something I've often wondered about.

[mctowalot]

My initials are M.C., and I tow - a lot. Hence the screen name.
While I don't do any repo's (that I know of anyway) I do tow vehicles that are parked in reserved spots or parking lots or areas that require a permit of some sort to park in. //Many times I am told I don't have the right to "take someone's property" ie: the vehicle that should not be parked from where I'm towing it from. So I hope in your eyes my type of towing fits in this thread.
In my gig, I'm actually "giving" my client the use of their property (the parking spot that they paid big bucks to have reserved for them) by removing someone else's property (their car that should not have parked in my clients parking space). Thankfully, the laws regarding all of this are laid out cut and dry as the tow lobby is alive and well in Texas.

I don't think anyone is arguing that a repo man or towing outfit has the legal right to take the property -- they do. This thread started about the legality of stopping someone from taking your property, even if it turns out to be a repo man with the legal authority to seize it.

You, like the repo man, have a civil law authority to seize and remove property. But you don't have any authority to seize or remove it by using force against a person. It's illegal for you to tow a vehicle with a person inside... what are you going to do if they hop in and lock the doors? It's not legal for you to physically restrain and move a person who is in the way, so what are you going to do if they pull a "we shall not be moved" human chain around the car and/or your truck?

You've got the legal authority to do your job, but you don't have any legal authority to initiate force against someone to do it. You can persuade, intimidate, deceive, trick, charm... but you can't legally use force.

And I'll add that I don't believe you have the legal authority to trespass upon someone else's private real property to tow or repo an automobile (obviously, if the car driven by person A is illegally parked on real property owned by person B, you're legal as long as you have the permission of person B).

The whole argument to me comes down to which "right" is more important:

The right of a lender to recoup his money by reclaiming personal property.

The right of "parties in possession" (i.e. owner/renter) of real property to be free from trespass by others onto said real property.

And to a lesser degree there is question of whether it's prudent to conduct snatch-n-grab repos on public or third-party private property when doing so can look very much like theft.

Um, I think I might might not have comunicated my thoughts and opinions very well, or my post was misinterpeted. Gee wiz guys, I was just trying to share a little of the joy that is driving a wrecker with ya'll. I seem to recall A.R. inquiring about the removal of a vehicle without the "owner's consent" and while my type of tows are not repos (hey that rhymes!) I thought there were some simularities shared and I would share a little peak into my world with you.
I've re-read my posts and I can't for the life of me figure out why anyone would get the idea that I needed to be scolded about the fact that I could not use force or intimitation or call someone a poopy-head or whatever.
What would I do if the owner jumped in the car or a human chain was formed you ask?
I'll do what I always do because this happens sometimes - well I've yet to see a human chain but the former occurs now and then. When the owner of a car I'm towing jumps in it, I a: bring my wrecker to a safe stop. b: order a pizza. c: call the cops and tell them I've got some idiot acting like a child. When the pizza arrives I offer some to the person acting like an idiot. When the cops arrive I offer them pizza too. The the Officer informs the person acting like an idiot that they can either pay me to drop the car or get out and allow me to do my job.
Did I mention that there are cut and dry laws and regulations I must follow? There are and I do.
I think I'm detecting a some anti-wrecker driver emotions here, or perhaps I'm misinterpeting what I'm reading as I was misinterpeted.
If that is this case, let me just say I am in complete agreement with the fact that I must follow the law and must play nice with all.
Now, about those filthy repo scoundrals! Just who do they think they are retrieving stolen property and returning it to it's rightfull owners/lein holders???!!!
Kill 'em all and let the bank sort it out! (Just kidding- sort of)

[boomerang]

And I'll add that I don't believe you have the legal authority to trespass upon someone else's private real property to tow or repo an automobile (obviously, if the car driven by person A is illegally parked on real property owned by person B, you're legal as long as you have the permission of person B).

The whole argument to me comes down to which "right" is more important:

The right of a lender to recoup his money by reclaiming personal property.

The right of "parties in possession" (i.e. owner/renter) of real property to be free from trespass by others onto said real property.

And to a lesser degree there is question of whether it's prudent to conduct snatch-n-grab repos on public or third-party private property when doing so can look very much like theft.

OK. Here's a hypothetical.

You lend your neighbor your lawnmower. He doesn't return it. You need to mow your lawn. You see your lawnmower sitting in his back yard.

[mctowalot]

Well, if it was me I'd just wait until the mower was parked in a reserved parking space and then, well, you know.
To answer your question Mr. Gregthehand, please google "Houston Tow Hearing". It would be great if you could post a link or summary - I can't because I'm working and all I have is this stupid "smart" phone.
I am proud to say I've never lost a tow hearing because all of my tows are legit, what with me following all the laws and regulations and all. :)
And I hope no one gets mad about it, I don't write the laws I just follow 'em.
As one of our fellow forum members says, "Don't blame me, I didn't park your car there!"

[A-R]

Um, I think I might might not have comunicated my thoughts and opinions very well, or my post was misinterpeted. Gee wiz guys, I was just trying to share a little of the joy that is driving a wrecker with ya'll. I seem to recall A.R. inquiring about the removal of a vehicle without the "owner's consent" and while I my type of tows are not repos (hey that rhymes!) I thought there were some simularities shared and I would share a little peak into my world with you.
I've re-read my posts and I can't for the life of me figure out why anyone would get the idea that I needed to be scolded about the fact that I could not use force or intimitation or call someone a poopy-head or whatever.
What would I do if the owner jumped in the car or a human chain was formed you ask?
I'll do what I always do because this happens sometimes - well I've yet to see a human chain but the former occurs now and then. When the owner of a car I'm towing jumps in it, I a: bring my wrecker to a safe stop. b: order a pizza. c: call the cops and tell them I've got some idiot acting like a child. When the pizza arrives I offer some to the person acting like an idiot. When the cops arrive I offer them pizza too. The the Officer informs the person acting like an idiot that they can either pay me to drop the car or get out and allow me to do my job.
Did I mention that there are cut and dry laws and regulations I must follow? There are and I do.
I think I'm detecting a some anti-wrecker driver emotions here, or perhaps I'm misinterpiting what I'm reading as I was misinterpeted.
If that is this case, let me just say I am in complete agreement with the fact that I must follow the law and must play nice with all.
Now, about those filthy repo scoundrals! Just who do they think they are retrieving stolen property and returning it to it's rightfull owners/lein holders???!!!
Kill 'em and let the bank sort it out! (Just kidding- sort of)

mctowalot, I don't think anyone intended to scold you. Only to redirect toward the original thread about repo men, not merely towing because of illegal parking or whatever. I for one have no problem with what you do (though I do agree with post above that $400 for a tow and one night storage is quite literally highway robbery). And sounds like you follow all the laws too, so carry on - no problem from me.

My concern is about overzealous repo men. And from all I've learned in this thread, it seems the overzealous ones are likely already breaking some laws (or at least rules/policies) anyway.

I still disagree with this idea that it is OK for a repo man to step one foot onto my real property (driveway) in order to reclaim personal property (automobile), and believe that if a homeowner shot at a repo man who was doing this unannounced the homeowner would be cleared (at least if I was on the jury).

And to answer the above question about lawnmowers. Depends how well you know your neighbor. If you know him well enough to loan him your lawnmower, then you probably know him well enough to know whether it's OK with him for you to enter his property to reclaim your lawnmower. But if I didn't "know this" I certainly wouldn't trespass on someone else's real property to reclaim my personal property.

What truly amazes me is how so many on this forum so easily defend the rights of property owners to prevent trespass by a CHL with a 30.06, but don't also defend the rights of property owners to prevent trespass by overzealous repo men? I'll ask again, by failing to pay the note on a car, do you somehow give up the right to be free from trespass within the boundaries of your own property?

Maybe if a store owner owes us money we should be free to walk right past his 30.06 sign while carrying?

[gregthehand]

Well, if it was me I'd just wait until the mower was parked in a reserved parking space and then, well, you know.
To answer your question Mr. Gregthehand, please google "Houston Tow Hearing". It would be great if you could post a link or summary - I can't because I'm working and all I have is this stupid "smart" phone.
I am proud to say I've never lost a tow hearing because all of my tows are legit, what with me following all the laws and regulations and all. :)
And I hope no one gets mad about it, I don't write the laws I just follow 'em.
As one of our fellow forum members says, "Don't blame me, I didn't park your car there!"

I googled it and didn't find anything.

[casingpoint]

Maybe twenty, twenty-five years ago, a guy shot and killed a repo man in Houston attempting to tow his car off out of his driveway after dark. The repo man had not contacted the owner, so the owner thought it was a car thief. It was ruled a clean shoot. Go figure.

[mctowalot]

Sounds like a "clean shoot" to me. I wonder if the repo man's family misses him and wished he had announced himself - perhaps he did but the noble shooter did not hear him.
I'm surprised there were no bloggers whining about tow hearings, Mr. Hand. I'll PM the details to you so as to not bend the thread any further.
Re: $400.00 fees, etc. Yup, that is indeed highway robbery - and one reason TDLR took over regulating the tow industry in Texas. Fees are now set in stone, but that doesn't mean a wrecker driver might not lie and try to scam a vehicle owner into giving them an arm and leg.
While I don't know about the legality of it, entering/crossing someone's property to perform a repo unannouced certainly seems like a receipe for disaster. I look foward to this being cleared up. The fact is there are plenty of folks ready, willing, and able to shoot at "shadows in the dark", and I suppose that under the right circumstances they would be labled "clean shoots".
For the record, I've found that charm works best - sometimes I'll even flash my tooth at 'em. Chicks dig that! :).

[frazzled]

If I catch someone in my driveway (my real property) taking my car (my personal property) at night, knowing full well I am behind on payments, what happens if I shoot them?

If you don't own the vehicle (not paid off) then if I was on the jury I would say you're guilty. I would say not guilty if the repo man shot you in self defense.

However, if the vehicle is paid off and you hold clear title, then the repo man is a car thief. Maybe because of his own negligence rather than intentionally, but in my mind he's still a thief. I would say you're not guilty and I would say he is guilty.

You're confusing ownership of the property with a lien by the finance company ont he property. The car owner still owns the car. The finance company just has a security interest in the vehicle and right to exercise the liquidation of that collateral of the loan is breached.

Regardless this is not an issue you would want to be the defendant on in a jury situation...

[chabouk]

Mr. mctowalot, it was not my intention to scold you at all. Like austinrealtor said, I was just trying to focus on the legality of stopping a repo man from taking property, and his authority to use any force to do so.

I agree with your earlier statement (I think it was you; if not, I stand corrected) that "the towing lobby is alive and well in Texas". That's why tow trucks prowl the Houston "tow zones" looking for broken down or out-of-gas vehicles they can hook up and charge outrageous fees to recover.

I intend no offense to you, at all. You sound like a hard-working man conducting legitimate work and protecting private property interests by removing unwanted cars that are parked contrary to the property owner's posted rules. I'm 100% behind you on that, because I believe in property rights.

I do not support government-enforced special classes that result in undue profit. If a driver is arrested, he should be able to summon either someone to drive his vehicle, or the tow company of his choosing to take his car wherever he chooses. "Next truck in the rotation" hauling a car to the impound lot is government-backed extortion. It's highly profitable, which is why the "towing lobby" can hire lobbyists.

[marksiwel]

See the Repo Men arent STEALING your property they are taking back whats "Theirs"

If you sold someone a car and the check bounced and knew where it was, what would you do to get YOUR Car back?

[ericlw]

I am not up to date on USA laws for repo's but I can tell you this about Canada........

I can take the property from wherever it is. The "owner's" property, his brother's property, his friend's property or anywhere I find the item/car. The Repo paperwork is in fact a legal warrant to seize the item.

Even if it is hidden in a garage, as long as I have reasonable suspicion that the item is in the garage, I had the legal authority to break into the garage and take it. I only once had to do this and it wouldn't have happened unless I was certain the item was in the garage. It so happened there was a window in the garage that I could see the Snowmobile in the garage and just as we were about to break into it, the "owner" came out of the house and unlocked the garage for us.

Im sorry but I seriously dought you can break into someones garage in the USA and not be arrested or shot at or both.also canada is a socialist country so they may give you more "rights", but not here.

[marksiwel]

Im sorry but I seriously dought you can break into someones garage in the USA and not be arrested or shot at or both.also Canada is a socialist country so they may give you more "rights", but not here.

Saw this might help
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_are_the_ ... s_in_Texas" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Also if Canada is a "Socialist Country" why are they letting a Private Business practice Capitalism at its finest (Get my money regardless)?