Cities improperly posting 30.06 signs?

[BoneDigger]

That could be the case in regard to the USFS. Do you have a regulation you can cite that points that out? It would be good to have that in writing so it's available to everyone. I'm certainly not calling you wrong, as I believe you may be right, but it would be good to have the law posted so we can be see it ourselves.

Todd

[kragluver]

Fort Worth Museum of Science & History (which is apparently built on a city-owned lot) is posted. The only visible sign is in the grass next to the sidewalk coming from the south (i.e., the Cowgirl Museum). I have not seen a sign at the main entrance.

I just remembered - there is a museum school for children at the museum - this may qualify the museum as a school which would therefore make it off-limits.

[RPB]

Heads up guys, when you go to pay property taxes ...

I just got back from Burnet CENTRAL Appraisal District.
They had invalid 30.06 signs on the doors, (wrong wording, printed on 8-1/2x11 sheets of paper in English and Spanish, scotch taped to the glass front doors.
Wording similar to "Warning, No concealed handguns allowed, except for Peace Officers, or you will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law."

but notice this ...

I decided to leave my gun in the car, and ask about this ...

I said "I didn't think the County could post such a sign in a bulding which does NOT contain offices used by Court etc ..."

The reply I got amazed me ...
"A private business can, that's why we changed our name from Burnet COUNTY Appraisal District, to Burnet CENTRAL Appraisal District to avoid confusion ... we are a private company subcontracted by the County to collect property taxes for the various districts and cities within the county. We are not a governmental entity, not a subdivision of the County, city or State. We are a private company and as such can post whatever signs we want."

One of them looked at me and asked "You packin'?" I replied that no, I'm licensed, but I left it in the car, she said "OK" and shrugged her shoulders, and didn't ORALLY say I COULD or COULDN'T as a licensee, and I wasn't about to ask, although those signs are ambiguous (don't comply with 30.06, perhaps intentionally, I'm not telling the OTHER employees that. ... I suspect whoever printed and taped them up there already knows that and posted them for application to non-licensees and the comfort of their employees in knowing they aren't likely to be protected by a licensee if robbed of all that tax money they collect ... or other reasons .... and I don't need to teach their OTHER employees anything) so, I paid the taxes and left.

I wonder how many people are aware it isn't a County/city/state agency/property.

I submitted this to texas3006 website, but it isn't viewable there yet.

[seamusTX]

I think the information that you received is as bogus as a $3 bill.

Tax Code 6.01. APPRAISAL DISTRICTS ESTABLISHED. (a) An appraisal district is established in each county.

(b) The district is responsible for appraising property in the district for ad valorem tax purposes of each taxing unit that imposes ad valorem taxes on property in the district.

(c) An appraisal district is a political subdivision of the state.

Ask the county tax assessor. This person is an elected official.

- Jim

[RPB]

I think the information that you received is as bogus as a $3 bill.

Tax Code 6.01. APPRAISAL DISTRICTS ESTABLISHED. (a) An appraisal district is established in each county.

(b) The district is responsible for appraising property in the district for ad valorem tax purposes of each taxing unit that imposes ad valorem taxes on property in the district.

(c) An appraisal district is a political subdivision of the state.

Ask the county tax assessor. This person is an elected official.

- Jim

County tax assessor/collector is in another building which is actually a Courthouse annex, with metal detectors etc. The Tax Assessor/Collector renews license plates, I get trailer plates renewed there, but they have nothing to do with Real Estate property taxes, that's the appraisal district, where I was, in a separate building miles away .... differrent people altogether. However, I'll ask around why this private company is handling business that SHOULD be handled by a COUNTY Entity, as a subdivision of the State.

I agree, it's supposed to be a subdivision of the State, I'm just wondering what Burnet County did ... I'll be asking a lot of people a lot of questions soon .... Or, maybe I'll ignore the invalid signs ... haven't decided yet, but probably will do some discrete research, asking questions about our local government ... I wonder if our County LEOs are subcontractors, I know our Garbage Collection is ... I haven't lived here long, but I'm gonna learn a bit .... might run for office one day if I'm not pleased.


I wonder ... If it ISN'T a subdivision of the State, if I can sue and get a refund if they have no right to collect, and what their Privacy disclosures are as a private company etc etc

http://www.manta.com/coms2/dnbcompany_ps6p7" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Burnet Central Appraisal District Business Information
Burnet Central Appraisal District is a private company categorized under Real Estate Appraisers and located in Burnet, TX.

However, I am positive Stan Hemphill, the CHIEF Appraiser, is an elected official ... Perhaps our County Commissioners were outsourced to India though ...

But, seriously, this brings up questions about this private company turning accounts over to lawyers and the tax foreclosure sales.

[seamusTX]

The Tax Assessor/Collector renews license plates, I get trailer plates renewed there, but they have nothing to do with Real Estate property taxes, ...

Sorry, but the county tax assessor/collector is involved in real estate tax collection as well as vehicle registration and some other taxes.

6.21. COUNTY ASSESSOR-COLLECTOR. (a) The assessor-collector for a county is determined as provided by Article VIII, Sections 14, 16, and 16a, of the Texas Constitution. [generally elected]

6.23. DUTIES OF ASSESSOR AND COLLECTOR. (a) The county assessor-collector shall assess and collect taxes on property in the county for the county. He shall also assess and collect taxes on property for another taxing unit ... [generally taxes levied by cities, school districts, and other political subdivisions]

The appraisal district determines property values. The tax collector handles the legal aspects of collection.

http://www.manta.com/coms2/dnbcompany_ps6p7

I have no idea where this site gets its information. It is certainly not an official, legal site.

- Jim

[RPB]

We have two different people in two separate elected offices taxing different things.

Sheri Frazier is County Tax Assessor Collector.
Sheri collects "property taxes" on personal property; cars/trailers etc. For the State of Texas, the office collects beer, wine and liquor licensing fees as well as fees for titles and registration of trailers and motor vehicles; and registration of voters.

Stan Hemphill is the Chief Appraiser for the Tax Appraisal District;
Stan appraises and collects property taxes on Real Property, land, houses etc ... for the various taxing entities, like School Districts, City, County etc ...


I'm still researching, some Attorney General Opinions on CONTRACTING out services etc by governmental entities ...
But, I don't really believe they are contractors, they MUST be a subdivision of the State and the people just either ignorant or pulling my chain. We VOTE for the Chief Appraiser, not for a private company employee. I mean the State established Tax Appraisal Districts, one in each County, I fail to see how the Appraisal Dist could subcontract itself out or outsource itself, and go to the beach while the subcontractor does the work..

Meanwhile, here is Burnet CAD's official site http://www.burnet-cad.org/organization.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[seamusTX]

I wouldn't say they're lying, but they are trying to fool themselves.

If you want to go to the trouble, ask them, if they are a private company, who the owners are. They would have to be either a DBA or a chartered corporation. I bet they are neither, and they will give you some gobbledegook.

- Jim

[RPB]

I wouldn't say they're lying, but they are trying to fool themselves.

If you want to go to the trouble, ask them, if they are a private company, who the owners are. They would have to be either a DBA or a chartered corporation. I bet they are neither, and they will give you some gobbledegook.

- Jim

I agree. If they truly were a private company, I'd be upset. But the more research I do, the funnier and less believable they sound. Thanks for the reminder ...I could e-mail the Secretary of State, it's free ... but I seriously believe they were just pulling my chain now, beginning with their tiny sign with non-compliant language. Probably posted by a CHL holder who knows better, after his/her uninformed boss told him/her to post a sign, so he/she followed directions instead of arguing with the boss, knowing that any CHL would know it was invalid anyway.

Although, it is interesting that it was once known as Burnet COUNTY Appraisal District but now is Burnet CENTRAL Appraisal District, and that employee mentioning the name change ... http://www.3rdcoa.courts.state.tx.us/op ... ionId=5033" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The following document uses both names
http://www.meadowlakestexas.org/home/up ... 0taxes.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
SECTION III. All taxes shall become a lien upon the property against which assessed, and the Burnet County Tax Appraisal District.
SECTION IV. Taxes are payable at the Office of the Burnet Central Appraisal District in either Burnet or Marble Falls

Here's a City Council Document ..
http://www.cityofburnet.com/public_info ... inutes.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
A RESOLUTION OF VOTES CAST BY THE CITY COUNCIL, OF THE CITY OF BURNET, TO ELECT DIRECTORS FOR THE BURNET CENTRAL APPRAISAL DISTRICT FOR THE YEAR 2010-2011: K. Dix
Council Member Pat Riddell made a motion to approve the resolution as presented and allocate the city’s 121 votes to Burnet County Appraisal District candidate, Shawn Alberding. Council Member William DeLeon seconded, the motion carried unanimously

I spent enough time on it ... I'll leave it at "They have a whole bunch of signs posted up front, what hours they are open, no smoking, Delinquent tax notices, Taxpayer rights, and about 20 others, etc. but NO valid 30.06 sign"

I may look into it further later just for a "Who am I giving money to, and is what they did legal?" perspective if anything odd comes up..

[RPB]

WELL, Check this out ... "a contractual arrangement with the County, the Burnet Central Appraisal District is responsible for the ...... " http://www.burnetcountytexas.org/docs/9 ... -30-09.PDF" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

See Page 27, NOTE 4: PROPERTY TAXES

Legislation was passed in 1979 and amended in 1981 by the Texas Legislature which affects the methods of
property assessment and tax collection in the County. This legislation, with certain exceptions, exempts
intangible personal property, household goods and family-owned automobiles from taxation. In addition, this
legislation creates a "Property Tax Code" and provides, among other things, for the establishment of county-wide
appraisal districts and for the State Property Tax Board which commenced operation in January, 1980.
As of October 1, 1981, the appraisal of property within the County was the responsibility of the county-wide
appraisal district.

Through a contractual arrangement with the County, the Burnet Central Appraisal District is responsible for the
collection of taxes. The Appraisal District is governed by a Board of Directors elected by the governing bodies of
the taxing entities within the District. The Board of Directors appoints a Chief Appraiser to act as Chief
Administrator of the Appraisal District and an Appraisal Review Board to equalize appraised values.

The reason I was posting this initially was to make others aware if their Appraisal District is a CENTRAL private business contracted instead of a COUNTY governmental entity ... .... and I don;t know what allows them to legally contract it out when the Tax code says it's a subdivision of the State .... but .... apparently some are. That COULD affect whether we could carry there or not.

[seamusTX]

Many counties now have a CENTRAL appraisal district instead of a COUNTY appraisal district.

The reason is that county appraisal districts originally performed appraisals only for the county government. Each municipality, school district, utility district, etc., had to perform its own appraisal. It obviously made no sense for multiple entities to perform duplicate tasks to come up with the same number for the same purpose. Therefore, after 100 years or so, most counties consolidated the function in one office.

- Jim

[RPB]

Many counties now have a CENTRAL appraisal district instead of a COUNTY appraisal district.

The reason is that county appraisal districts originally performed appraisals only for the county government. Each municipality, school district, utility district, etc., had to perform its own appraisal. It obviously made no sense for multiple entities to perform duplicate tasks to come up with the same number for the same purpose. Therefore, after 100 years or so, most counties consolidated the function in one office.

- Jim

Makes sense, thanks for the explanation. I can understand one governmental entity contracting with another governmental entity, the OAG posted some opinion on that. Lady must be mistaken thinking they are a private company.

It's amazing all that Burnet County TRIES to do ... and actually does.
November 2, 2007 Burnet County formed the creation of Burnet County Public Facility Corporation (the
"Corporation") under the Public Facility Corporation Act Chapter 303 (the "Act") of the Texas Local Government
Code. The Corporation is legally separate from the County, but the County appoints all of the board members and
has the ability to remove those board members at will. The Corporation provides housing for County prisoners.

I imagine the County "contracts" with the "Corporation" .... but I'd still view it as a government entity or subdivision thereof due to their creating it and continued control over it. ... Like a Parent Corporation or on a different scale an Employer controlling an employee, where the control over a subcontractor/independant contractor is more limited. That's my Layman's opinion anyway.

Still, the taxes are really really cheap here, and in city limits, we all get cheap city-provided electricity (no electric company or co-op), and I get the "senior rate" on Garbage pickup from the city

[seamusTX]

Lady must be mistaken thinking they are a private company.

Maybe it's what management told her. People at that level usually are not allowed to think for themselves.

- Jim

[RPB]

Lady must be mistaken thinking they are a private company.

Maybe it's what management told her. People at that level usually are not allowed to think for themselves.

- Jim

If it was an "actual" 30.06 sign, I'd be over at the County Attorney's office now to investigate further / have it taken down, but I think I'll just pay the proper consideration to those two pieces of paper for exactly what they are.

Edited to add ...

Well, maybe I shouldn't have, but I just called the Burnet County Attorney's office, and a lawyer there said "I don't know anything about the tax code, but I'd consider it a Courthouse annex, even though it's across the street and not in the Courthouse building, as are privately owned stores and the Library across the street, but they are on the "Square", whith a Courthouse in the center of the Square."

Counties site says
The courthouse is located on the square in Burnet.
There are two courthouse annexes in the city which house many of the county offices. One is located at 1701 E. Polk (Highway 29 East) and the other is located on the south side of the square, across from the Courthouse.

Bank and City Library are on the NORTH side of the Square, Stores and restaurants and a health clinic on the West and South (along with the space rented to and having a sign "County Annex" on the South)
(Tax Appraisal District, Chamber of Commerce, Republican Party headquarters is on the EAST side of the square)

With its local shopping on Burnet Square, delicious restaurants, and friendly hospitality, Burnet offers a great place to relax and unwind from stresses of everyday life.

[srothstein]

Wow, an area that deals with where I work now. Since leaving TABC, I am now employed with the Comptroller's Office Property Tax Assistance Division. I truly did not expect to see any questions about property tax on this board. I spent quite a bit of time learning the basics of the Tax Code in November and December and at times it makes the Penal Code look easy.

The CAD is a government body, funded 100% by taxes. Some of the counties call them County Appraisal Districts and some changed the name to central appraisal district. There are 253 of them in Texas now, with Potter and Randle counties combining to form one CAD. The various taxing entities in the county appoint the Board of Directors to the CAD. The BOD appoints the Chief Appraiser. The Chief appraiser hires anyone else need for the office. The BOD sets the budget for the CAD and splits the funding among the taxing entities based on the percentage of the property value in the district. And we all know that anything funded by taxes is a governmental agency, even if Jim had not posted the law saying so. And I was told that the main reason the CADs changed their name to Central is because they are not part of the County government and are not "county" offices, but legally a special district like a water or emergency services district.

The CAD's started out by just appraising for the county, as Jim said. This led to one property having several different appraised values, which just isn't fair. So the state mandated that only the CAD can appraise (did this in the 70's if I understand correctly) but did not limit the CAD to the county line at the time. So, if a city or school district crossed county lines, they could choose either of the CADs to appraise their property. Of course, the CADs were supposed to work together, but there were a few cases where a school district would pick one CAD while a city would pick another CAD and the property still had multiple appraisals. There were a couple other restrictions imposed, and then three years ago, the CAD was restricted to its county lines. Now each property gets appraised once by one CAD and cities or school districts that cross line shave to work with multiple CADs. This is fairer to the taxpayer, or seems that way to me.

The CAD appraises all of the property in the county at least once every three years and sets the value of it. The taxing entities may collect the taxes on their own, or contract with an agency to do so. The normal agency to collect taxes is the county tax assessor collector, but some counties do contract with the CADs to also collect the taxes.

And one of the main reasons I jumped in is to point out that the CAD may be considered a court house at times, and definitely has governmental meetings there. The Board of Directors is a governing body and the laws restricting carry during their meetings would apply. Note that this is only true when they are actually meeting. But, and this is important, each CAD has an independent body that hears tax protests. The Appraisal Review Board (ARB) is mandated by law to be set up to hear the protests locally. Since the ARB is a group of citizens, I am not sure if it would count as a court or not but I could see some CAD who wanted to bar guns arguing it that way. And if a judge agrees it is a court, remember that courts and offices used by them are off limits whether the court is in session or not (IIRC). You might be able to argue that the ARB is not a court, but it would still be a governmental meeting if they are in session, and you would be back to that law for guidance.

As an aside, many of the CADs contract out part of the appraisal process for complex properties. It is at least theoretically possible that the CAD could contract out the whole operation, but I have not heard of that being done yet. Even if it did, the CAD itself, along with the Chief Appraiser, would still be part of the government and not part of the private business.