aggressive panhandler (long)
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aggressive panhandler (long)
Last weekend I had the pleasure of spending the better part of Sunday afternoon/evening in the ER with my wife who was ill with a stomach virus. She was released at about 9:00 pm and we made our way to a nearby Walgreens to have a couple of prescriptions filled, and pick up Gatorade and some chicken soup.
She was still groggy from being on meds in the ER so as I pulled into the parking lot of the Walgreens I asked her if she could walk in with me or if she would stay in the car. She indicated that she would stay in the car (which is what I thought she would say). Anticipating her response, I chose to park near the street away from the store as the Walgreens appeared unusually busy for that time of night and there were lots of cars parked in the front row near the sides of the store. I figured that with her seat reclined and the car away from the store, no one would notice that she was in there.
I got out of my car and did a quick scan of the cars near the front of the store, made mental notes on which were occupied and chose my path to the front door. As I am scanning and walking I notice a man (probably a transient) peering out in between a movie vending machine and a rack of propane bottles on the side of the building. He looked like a cat in wait of a mouse. Meanwhile a man (customer) comes out of Walgreens and heads down the side of the building and I know he can't possibly see the transient behind the vending machine. Sure enough, the customer is walking along oblivious and the transient literally jumps out and starts cursing the customer and asking for money. The customer is obviously startled and jumps back slightly and instinctively raises his hands, palms out as if in a "hold up" position. I slowed my stride to watch what happens next as a shoving match ensues. The customer literally shoves the transient to the side and makes his way to his vehicle and leaves.
I went in the pharmacy dropped the prescription off, gave the the girl my cell phone number and told her to call me when it is ready, so I could return to the car with my wife. On the way out the front door, I looked back toward the vending machine and there he is again waiting for prey. Sitting in the car waiting for the prescription to be filled, I watched this guy pop out like a jack-in-the-box catching people off guard and getting into a shoving match with most. What was more astonishing was the amount of restraint (or I suspect lack of knowing what to do) that most people exhibited. Most people stiffened and tried to keep their stride even after the guy laid hands on them.
Long story short, I made my wife go in with me to retrieve the prescriptions, Gatorade, chicken soup, etc. No way was I going to leave her out there again.
She was still groggy from being on meds in the ER so as I pulled into the parking lot of the Walgreens I asked her if she could walk in with me or if she would stay in the car. She indicated that she would stay in the car (which is what I thought she would say). Anticipating her response, I chose to park near the street away from the store as the Walgreens appeared unusually busy for that time of night and there were lots of cars parked in the front row near the sides of the store. I figured that with her seat reclined and the car away from the store, no one would notice that she was in there.
I got out of my car and did a quick scan of the cars near the front of the store, made mental notes on which were occupied and chose my path to the front door. As I am scanning and walking I notice a man (probably a transient) peering out in between a movie vending machine and a rack of propane bottles on the side of the building. He looked like a cat in wait of a mouse. Meanwhile a man (customer) comes out of Walgreens and heads down the side of the building and I know he can't possibly see the transient behind the vending machine. Sure enough, the customer is walking along oblivious and the transient literally jumps out and starts cursing the customer and asking for money. The customer is obviously startled and jumps back slightly and instinctively raises his hands, palms out as if in a "hold up" position. I slowed my stride to watch what happens next as a shoving match ensues. The customer literally shoves the transient to the side and makes his way to his vehicle and leaves.
I went in the pharmacy dropped the prescription off, gave the the girl my cell phone number and told her to call me when it is ready, so I could return to the car with my wife. On the way out the front door, I looked back toward the vending machine and there he is again waiting for prey. Sitting in the car waiting for the prescription to be filled, I watched this guy pop out like a jack-in-the-box catching people off guard and getting into a shoving match with most. What was more astonishing was the amount of restraint (or I suspect lack of knowing what to do) that most people exhibited. Most people stiffened and tried to keep their stride even after the guy laid hands on them.
Long story short, I made my wife go in with me to retrieve the prescriptions, Gatorade, chicken soup, etc. No way was I going to leave her out there again.
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Re: aggressive panhandler (long)
I would have told store manager and/or police. I guess I am lucky only panhandlers I see are my kids trying to get money from almost just as aggressively.
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Re: aggressive panhandler (long)
Agreed. This is essentially robbery and the police need to be notified that this is happening.
Glad you were able to leave without being acosted by the transient. Hope your wife is feeling better soon!
Glad you were able to leave without being acosted by the transient. Hope your wife is feeling better soon!
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Re: aggressive panhandler (long)
Syrna, where did this take place?
I'm in DFW and have seen some pretty persistant panhandlers in my area too.
Just curious.
I'm in DFW and have seen some pretty persistant panhandlers in my area too.
Just curious.
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Re: aggressive panhandler (long)
What would you guys with CHL's do in this situation? You are walking to your car and confronted by this guy and he laid his hands on you.
i has chl
i has cfp
i has cfp
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Re: aggressive panhandler (long)
As soon as I saw the transient put his hands on the other customer, I would have been dialing 9-1-1. Since the other customer just pushed his way past the transient, I would have returned to my car with my wife and observed while waiting for the officers to arrive. Had the incident escalated, who knows what my actions would have been - It would depend upon exactly what ensued. In any case, your eye witness statement could very well have helped get this nuisance off the street.
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Re: aggressive panhandler (long)
Well, I'm clearly not going to draw my weapon on him unless there is some weapon in his hand and I can clearly articulate that I was in fear for my life. As described, this is not the case. I would get his hands off and back away. Then, I'm going to get on the cell and get a uniform on the scene and give him a good description. In short, just be a good witness.What would you guys with CHL's do in this situation? You are walking to your car and confronted by this guy and he laid his hands on you.
I have had two instances of something like this occuring in a Wal-Mart after dark. One idiot was following women out to their cars as they came out of the store. The other instance two guys were driving around the parking lot accosting people. They even drove up beside me and asked me to "help them out." I told them to get lost, which they didn't like, but when the cell came out they sped away to another side of the lot. A patrol unit picked them up and I saw one led away in cuffs.
Re: aggressive panhandler (long)
bolded the section as it should be restated. not threatened to but actually did so.roff wrote:What would you guys with CHL's do in this situation? You are walking to your car and confronted by this guy and he laid his hands on you.
Hypothetically as this is a public forum I could see where he might have ended up with a gun in his face. Someone could be in fear for their life at that point. hypothetically.
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Re: aggressive panhandler (long)
A person in said situation couldn't possibly know the immediate intent, nor whether the 'panhandler' has a weapon or not. If he were to 'lay hands on' I would think at least threat of deadly force would be justified. Just my opinion.
Re: aggressive panhandler (long)
If he surprised a CHL holder and was advancing and acting in an aggressive manner, I can see where you could make a case to the cops for pulling your weapon. Someone like that who is already acting aggressively could easily decide to pull a knife or something. The "victim" has no way of knowing with any certainty. I would feel threatened in a situation like that. I have my doubts about that particular situation justifying a shoot, but in a similar situation somewhere else, you just don't know. Someone popping out from around a corner at night is not the normal behavior of a panhandler.
Re: aggressive panhandler (long)
No thats a mugging. Panhandling it aint.MechAg94 wrote:If he surprised a CHL holder and was advancing and acting in an aggressive manner, I can see where you could make a case to the cops for pulling your weapon. Someone like that who is already acting aggressively could easily decide to pull a knife or something. The "victim" has no way of knowing with any certainty. I would feel threatened in a situation like that. I have my doubts about that particular situation justifying a shoot, but in a similar situation somewhere else, you just don't know. Someone popping out from around a corner at night is not the normal behavior of a panhandler.
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Re: aggressive panhandler (long)
Most managers of businesses are quick to run bums off, especially if they are harassing customers. I would have notified a manager immediately, and let them deal with it.
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Re: aggressive panhandler (long)
I ran across an aggressive panhandler in NYC...he actually hit my left shoulder with his arm/hand/begging cup...when I say hit I don't mean WHAM as in he knocked me forward, but enough to get my attention and get a reaction, needless to say it was an unwelcomed and agressive touch. It was in a crowded area (in front of Carnegie Deli), I remember trying to avoid him when I was walking past him but he swung around and hit me and "asked" for money...I immediately swung a right hook at his jaw but my dad grabbed my arm before I made contact and pulled me away while saying "he's not worth it"....which is true.
Had another aggressive panhandler in Memphis, with me being by myself and it being 2 am I'm sure this didn't help, but was walking back from Beale St. to the Peabody and this guy comes up and walks beside me, I tell him to get away, not interested, he keeps on persisting...he made NO physical contact, no threats BUT he wouldn't take NO for an answer...I had my pocket knife open and at the ready just in case...I repeatedly kept on trying to outdistance him without running (fast walk) and kept on telling him to GET AWAY FROM ME, if you touch me I will stop you...as soon as I stepped onto the hotel property the security guards grabbed him. I was in fear of being attacked, not in fear for my life but I was highly annoyed to say the least...what would you guys have done? Mind you he did NOT touch me or threaten me, he just wouldn't leave me alone on a public street.
What would I do with the local "Walgreen" bum had it been me? It's hard to say...but had I been bum-rushed/touched (no pun) there would at the very least be an elbow to the jaw and then assess from there wether to continue with stopping the threat or take evasive action. Had I witnessed the bum in action then a phone call to 911 would happen at the very least.
Had another aggressive panhandler in Memphis, with me being by myself and it being 2 am I'm sure this didn't help, but was walking back from Beale St. to the Peabody and this guy comes up and walks beside me, I tell him to get away, not interested, he keeps on persisting...he made NO physical contact, no threats BUT he wouldn't take NO for an answer...I had my pocket knife open and at the ready just in case...I repeatedly kept on trying to outdistance him without running (fast walk) and kept on telling him to GET AWAY FROM ME, if you touch me I will stop you...as soon as I stepped onto the hotel property the security guards grabbed him. I was in fear of being attacked, not in fear for my life but I was highly annoyed to say the least...what would you guys have done? Mind you he did NOT touch me or threaten me, he just wouldn't leave me alone on a public street.
What would I do with the local "Walgreen" bum had it been me? It's hard to say...but had I been bum-rushed/touched (no pun) there would at the very least be an elbow to the jaw and then assess from there wether to continue with stopping the threat or take evasive action. Had I witnessed the bum in action then a phone call to 911 would happen at the very least.
Re: aggressive panhandler (long)
I would say, call 911 and be a good witness. But if someone else were about to enter his trap, I would advise the bum that 911 had already been called. I could not just stand by and let others be accosted in that manner.
Re: aggressive panhandler (long)
WOW, People were showing incredible restraint here. I can honestly say I would probably reacted badly to this situation.
First he was hiding and jumped out, second he grabbed him, third it was dark.
Not sure what would have happened next but I would have attempted to break contact probably violently. Back up and then see what was going on, my hand would more than likey be on my gun at this point if possible.
I would draw it if he had anything in his hands or I couldn't see them, While ordering him to back off, if he contiued to advance, he would probably suffer acute lead poisoning. This is a scary, bad situation with a lot of potential for violence, adrenalin would be flowing.
I definatly would have called the police that person was eventually going to grab the wrong person, and theres going to be a fight at least. While I'm not an expert I'm pretty sure He could be charged with assault and battery, and you or anyone else would be justified in defending themselves ( doesn't mean you could shoot him, however most women walking alone or anyone physically incapable of restraining him probably could make a case for being in fear of thier life )
If I had to guess I'll bet he's off his medication, or on too much.
First he was hiding and jumped out, second he grabbed him, third it was dark.
Not sure what would have happened next but I would have attempted to break contact probably violently. Back up and then see what was going on, my hand would more than likey be on my gun at this point if possible.
I would draw it if he had anything in his hands or I couldn't see them, While ordering him to back off, if he contiued to advance, he would probably suffer acute lead poisoning. This is a scary, bad situation with a lot of potential for violence, adrenalin would be flowing.
I definatly would have called the police that person was eventually going to grab the wrong person, and theres going to be a fight at least. While I'm not an expert I'm pretty sure He could be charged with assault and battery, and you or anyone else would be justified in defending themselves ( doesn't mean you could shoot him, however most women walking alone or anyone physically incapable of restraining him probably could make a case for being in fear of thier life )
If I had to guess I'll bet he's off his medication, or on too much.
Last edited by rremt_p on Thu Mar 04, 2010 8:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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