Cities improperly posting 30.06 signs?

[chabouk]

oK, STILL CONFUSED

If I can only bank fish in the State Park, and my hook gets stuck in the weeds in the Corps Lake, do I have to take my gun back to the car to wade in to get my hook unstuck from the Corps lake?

Ah, I see the source of your confusion now.

State parks on Corps land are still Corps land, and subject to Corps rules (according to the Corps, anyway).

As I understand it, this is because state parks on COE lands are leased from the Corps. There could be exceptions, which would bring up a whole different argument.

[RPB]

Ok, I'm just going to rig up one real short rod with 60 Lb. line, 16 Oz. of lead weights, and 20 large barbed treble hooks and practice casting it for self defense.

OR, get wrtten permission from District Commanders.

(Lets all write at once to them asking for permission)

§ 327.13 Explosives, firearms, other weapons and fireworks
(a) The possession of loaded firearms, ammunition, loaded projectile firing devices, bows and arrows, crossbows, or other weapons is prohibited unless:
(4) Written permission has been received from the District Commander.

[RPB]

UPDATE


I wrote to:
The DPS
National Parks Service
Recreation.gov
The Governor, Rick Perry, who replied and forwarded my issues to Carter Smith, the Executive Director of TPWD
I just got a letter from Carter Smith... dated January 12, 2010

"State park properties leased from the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers are subject to the rules and regulations of the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department. Therefore, a loaded, concealed handgun carried by a valid license holder is allowed within any Texas State Park."

"If you have any further questions about firearms in Texas State Parks, pleae contact Mr. Wes Masur, State Park Law Enforcement Director, at XXXXX or via email at XXXXXX"

[Keith B]

UPDATE


I wrote to:
The DPS
National Parks Service
Recreation.gov
The Governor, Rick Perry, who replied and forwarded my issues to Carter Smith, the Executive Director of TPWD
I just got a letter from Carter Smith... dated January 12, 2010

"State park properties leased from the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers are subject to the rules and regulations of the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department. Therefore, a loaded, concealed handgun carried by a valid license holder is allowed within any Texas State Park."

"If you have any further questions about firearms in Texas State Parks, pleae contact Mr. Wes Masur, State Park Law Enforcement Director, at XXXXX or via email at XXXXXX"

This is good info!! I am gonna assume (maybe a big mistake) that the same rules would hold true for land leased by a city from COE for a park. I have a location that I would like to carry, but have not because I figured it was still COE land.

[RPB]

City Parks hmmmm ... Incorporated city? City Police, I could guess, and probably be right, but IANL etc etc ...
Same with County Parks etc ... Addicks Dam in Houston is COE, but a Harris County Park there.
Since a County is a "subdivision of the State" I can make an assumption, which may be right or wrong (IANL etc)
But so far, all I asked and got an answer on is State Parks on property leased from the COE, however National Park Service replied that no National Park is on COE property, so they are all ok after Feb 22.

I'm glad Governor Rick Perry, and the TPWD took some action, because Senator Troy Fraser's office just mailed me a letter (also dated January 12) with a link to the Army Corps of Engineers website, Corps Lakes Gateway, which I had already found.

[joe817]

Good info indeed! Thank you RPB for your efforts!

[RPB]

Additionally:

Dear Mr. B:

Thank you for contacting me about federal firearms laws. I appreciate having the benefit of your comments on this matter.

It is essential to safeguard law-abiding citizen's right to own and use firearms designed for legitimate purposes such as hunting, target shooting, collecting, and self protection. Restricting this right runs counter to the intent of our Founding Fathers, who expressly guaranteed that citizens would retain the right to keep and bear arms.

As you may know, the Bureau of Land Management and the United States Forest Service allow the transporting and carrying of firearms on federal lands in accordance with the laws of the host state where these two agencies manage lands.

However, the National Parks Service (NPS) and the Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) are governed by separate federal statutes and have developed differing sets of firearms regulations.

I believe the inconsistency in firearms regulations on federal lands is confusing and burdensome to those who enjoy the outdoors. Therefore, I will continue to support legislation to require both the NPS and the FWS to honor host state gun laws that govern firearm possession.

I appreciate the opportunity to represent Texans in the United States Senate, and you may be certain that I will keep your views in mind should the Senate consider relevant legislation during the 111th Congress. Thank you for taking the time to contact me.

Sincerely,

JOHN CORNYN
United States Senator

[jordanusmc]

Maybe I am confused but are yall saying that a city cant post a 30.06 sign on there property at all or are you saying that they can but they must obey by the the state statue?

[C-dub]

A city can not legally enforce any posted 30.06 signs on any city property except for a building with a court room or any other room in which a government meeting is taking place. In other words, they can post one, but the state's statute says they can't prohibit a CHL holder from carrying except for the two areas mentioned above.

[srothstein]

One minor technical correction to C-dub's post. the actual wording of the law is courtroom or any offices used by the court. This includes the court clerk's office and places like the judge's chambers or jury chambers as well as the courtroom only. It remains to be seen exactly how far the offices part will be stretched by some city or county. I can see some claiming the probation office is used by the court also, as one example.

[C-dub]

Thanks Steve. I forgot about the offices part. I try to keep my nose pretty clean, so I don't get to those places very often. I didn't even have to go downtown when I got my last jury duty notice. I just had to call them after 1130 to see if they needed me and they didn't.

[Kinetic]

This sign is posted on the front door of the Longview Police Department. Sorry about the quality, I only had my cellphone on me.

The sign reads:

Possession of a firearm
(Including Concealed Handguns)
is prohibited in this building.

Violators will be prosecuted.
Texas Penal Code 30.05

While the sign has no legal bearing, there is no winning an arguement with LEO on things like this. Even when you win you lose time and money. If one carries in such places they should realize that the Police may not be their friends.

My impression of that sign is that it is directed at the general public, meaning non license holders. Notice it says, "including concealed guns" and not "includes licensed concealed carry". It is a play of words. The sign is perfectly legal to the non licensed concealed carry. But for a licensed conceal carry, the 30.06 sign would need to be in place before it applied. This is my understanding. Someone correct me if I am wrong.

[BoneDigger]

I may be wrong, but I believe that Mr. Smith of TPWD has this incorrect. I will check with the State Parks law enforcement program coordinator and see if I can get a word on this. Although TPWD leases some federal lands, state law NEVER trumps federal laws. It is illegal to carry on federal property, with the exception of the new laws on Federal parks. The exception is that the US Forest Service allows it during deer season while hunting. I am going to send an e-mail this evening and see what happens.

Todd

[dicion]

I may be wrong, but I believe that Mr. Smith of TPWD has this incorrect. I will check with the State Parks law enforcement program coordinator and see if I can get a word on this. Although TPWD leases some federal lands, state law NEVER trumps federal laws. It is illegal to carry on federal property, with the exception of the new laws on Federal parks. The exception is that the US Forest Service allows it during deer season while hunting. I am going to send an e-mail this evening and see what happens.

Todd

I won't believe it until we get a letter from the ACOE saying the Same thing. ACOE Law is Federal Law, and applies downwards to any lands leased under it. Even if it's allowed in state parks as per the law, it's ACOE Property First, State Park Second. ACOE Law Trumps.

[Keith B]

I may be wrong, but I believe that Mr. Smith of TPWD has this incorrect. I will check with the State Parks law enforcement program coordinator and see if I can get a word on this. Although TPWD leases some federal lands, state law NEVER trumps federal laws. It is illegal to carry on federal property, with the exception of the new laws on Federal parks. The exception is that the US Forest Service allows it during deer season while hunting. I am going to send an e-mail this evening and see what happens.

Todd

Actually, you may carry on US Forest Service land aytime as long as you are in compliance with state firearms laws.