HLSR

[KD5NRH]

With a REALLY good lawyer you just might win that one in court. You wont beat the ride or the day in court.
The only question is "Do you have enough $$$$$$$$$$s to be the test case."??????

If I did, I bet I could find better places to spend it than the rodeo.

OTOH, wouldn't having more than half your teeth and a house without wheels be sufficient evidence that you didn't go to the rodeo?

[Rayden]

So is it confirmed that CCW at the Carnival (Not the rodeo and concert itself) is OK? I am going to leave my CCW in my car while I am at the rodeo and concert, but if CCW is ok for the carnival outside then I will retrieve it from my car before I go back to the Carnival.

[barres]

Everything other than the Rodeo (and most of us would say the included concert, or so it would seem) is clear to carry.

[aaronlalonde]

i had this very discussion with a DPS officer while working my committee shift. He indicated that since it is a public venue concealed carry is legal except during the rodeo.

It is also illegal in Texas to watch a rodeo without drinking a 10.00 beer so that solves that problem as well.

[phrogg]

I have several trips to the rodeo coming up this year and I wanted to talk about this point just a little further.

One of the items that was brought up before was that because the rodeo was sponsored by the PRCA that it was a Professional Sporting Event (PSE) because the athletes were paid. But that is not quite true. You can be involved in the rodeo and not win anything. You simply apply for PRCA credentials and request entrance to an event. From the PRCA website:

Code: Select all

Anyone of legal age in his home state can apply for a PRCA permit, which allows him to enter many of the Association’s rodeos

Its like saying that if you are driving in the Monster Truck Jam and you win/place/show and you get a piece of the purse that its a PSE. Or like in my case where I drag race. I once brought home $100 from the event I was in because I made it all the way to the finals. But in no stretch of the imagination am I a professional Drag Racer. Shoot, I can't even get someone to pay me $20 to wear their decal on my helmet.

So I am not seeing that the Rodeo is a PSE.

[Keith B]

I have several trips to the rodeo coming up this year and I wanted to talk about this point just a little further.

One of the items that was brought up before was that because the rodeo was sponsored by the PRCA that it was a Professional Sporting Event (PSE) because the athletes were paid. But that is not quite true. You can be involved in the rodeo and not win anything. You simply apply for PRCA credentials and request entrance to an event. From the PRCA website:

Code: Select all

Anyone of legal age in his home state can apply for a PRCA permit, which allows him to enter many of the Association’s rodeos

Its like saying that if you are driving in the Monster Truck Jam and you win/place/show and you get a piece of the purse that its a PSE. Or like in my case where I drag race. I once brought home $100 from the event I was in because I made it all the way to the finals. But in no stretch of the imagination am I a professional Drag Racer. Shoot, I can't even get someone to pay me $20 to wear their decal on my helmet http://texaschlforum.com/posting.php?mo ... =7&t=23198#" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

So I am not seeing that the Rodeo is a PSE.

First off, welcome to the forum.

I don't think I would challenge this in court since PRCA is PROFESSIONAL Rodeo Cowboy Assoc. and rodeo is considered a sport. While not everyone involved in an NFL football game is a professional athlete, it is still a professional sporting event.

Just attending the event is prohibited; you need not be a participant or working there, just a spectator is enough.

[Scott in Houston]

Everything other than the Rodeo (and most of us would say the included concert, or so it would seem) is clear to carry.

Keep your eyes out for 51% signs. There are independent bars within the rodeo.


Also, if signs are posted, how are they not valid? What about the signs posted at George R Brown for gun shows, etc?

[phrogg]

First off, welcome to the forum.

Thanks, been lurking a lot but had my first question I couldn't find an answer to by searching.

I don't think I would challenge this in court since PRCA is PROFESSIONAL Rodeo Cowboy Assoc. and rodeo is considered a sport. While not everyone involved in an NFL football game is a professional athlete, it is still a professional sporting event.

Just attending the event is prohibited; you need not be a participant or working there, just a spectator is enough.

But the Professional part of the PRCA is simply them deciding to call themselves that. Its actually just their legal entity name/DBA.

Not trying to be too contrary here but if a sole proprietor files a DBA for Professional Rock, Paper, Scissors Association and then charges folks $15 to join his association and compete at the local public park with a $100 price for first place, is that now a Professional Sporting Event because someone called their company Professional RPSA? http://texaschlforum.com/posting.php?mo ... 7&p=369399#" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If the same guy didn't apply for the DBA, would that then mean that the event is no longer "Professional?" I know this hasn't been answered in the courts yet.

That is essentially what PRCA is doing. They are an organization that help to bring together anyone who wants to apply for "credentials" together with various events that happen. Anyone who applies is deemed "professional" by applying and paying their money!

I guess I think that Professional means that you have salaried athletes who are paid whether they win or lose and a governing body with a commissioner who can actually FINE you money vs suspending your credentials. I'm going to dig a little deeper into the PRCA and see if they somehow can actually fine you. I'm not seeing that so far.

[Keith B]

But the Professional part of the PRCA is simply them deciding to call themselves that. Its actually just their legal entity name/DBA.

Not trying to be too contrary here but if a sole proprietor files a DBA for Professional Rock, Paper, Scissors Association and then charges folks $15 to join his association and compete at the local public park with a $100 price for first place, is that now a Professional Sporting Event because someone called their company Professional RPSA?

If the same guy didn't apply for the DBA, would that then mean that the event is no longer "Professional?" I know this hasn't been answered in the courts yet.

That is essentially what PRCA is doing. They are an organization that help to bring together anyone who wants to apply for "credentials" together with various events that happen. Anyone who applies is deemed "professional" by applying and paying their money!

I guess I think that Professional means that you have salaried athletes who are paid whether they win or lose and a governing body with a commissioner who can actually FINE you money vs suspending your credentials. I'm going to dig a little deeper into the PRCA and see if they somehow can actually fine you. I'm not seeing that so far.

OK, here are some definitions:

pro⋅fes⋅sion⋅al  /prəˈfɛʃənl/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [pruh-fesh-uh-nl] Show IPA
–adjective
1. following an occupation as a means of livelihood or for gain: a professional builder.
2. of, pertaining to, or connected with a profession: professional studies.
3. appropriate to a profession: professional objectivity.
4. engaged in one of the learned professions: A lawyer is a professional person.
5. following as a business an occupation ordinarily engaged in as a pastime: a professional golfer.
6. making a business or constant practice of something not properly to be regarded as a business: “A salesman,” he said, “is a professional optimist.”
7. undertaken or engaged in as a means of livelihood or for gain: professional baseball.
8. of or for a professional person or his or her place of business or work: a professional apartment; professional equipment.
9. done by a professional; expert: professional car repairs.

–noun
10. a person who belongs to one of the professions, esp. one of the learned professions.
11. a person who earns a living in a sport or other occupation frequently engaged in by amateurs: a golf professional.
12. an expert player, as of golf or tennis, serving as a teacher, consultant, performer, or contestant; pro.
13. a person who is expert at his or her work: You can tell by her comments that this editor is a real professional.

sport⋅ing  /ˈspɔrtɪŋ, ˈspoʊr-/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [spawr-ting, spohr-] Show IPA
–adjective
1. engaging in, disposed to, or interested in open-air or athletic sports: a rugged, sporting man.
2. concerned with or suitable for such sports: sporting equipment.
3. sportsmanlike.
4. interested in or connected with sports or pursuits involving betting or gambling: the sporting life of Las Vegas.
5. involving or inducing the taking of risk, as in a sport.

e⋅vent  /ɪˈvɛnt/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [i-vent] Show IPA
–noun 1. something that happens or is regarded as happening; an occurrence, esp. one of some importance.
2. the outcome, issue, or result of anything: The venture had no successful event.
3. something that occurs in a certain place during a particular interval of time.
4. Physics. in relativity, an occurrence that is sharply localized at a single point in space and instant of time. Compare world point.
5. Sports. any of the contests in a program made up of one sport or of a number of sports: The broad jump event followed the pole vault.

And from http://www.prorodeo.com/prca.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Today's professional rodeo cowboy is a bit different from his 1800s predecessor, but the ideals and showmanship and hard work are still valued by today's competitors. A cowboy's standing in the rodeo community is still dependent on his skill with a rope or his ability to ride a bucking animal. The cowboy code still dictates that a cowboy ought to help his fellow competitors, even though they might be competing for the same paycheck.

I think if you put any of the red definitions in the equation you will find a rodeo with folks who are paid a purse or prize would qualify. And there are definitely those there that make their living doing that, like Ty Murray (He sure didn't do it from Dancing With the Stars!)

So, if I was a lawyer (I am not) and prosecuting a UCW case on someone who carried at the rodeo, I would be relying on these definitions to build my full definition of a Professional Sporting Event.

[hirundo82]

Everything other than the Rodeo (and most of us would say the included concert, or so it would seem) is clear to carry.

Keep your eyes out for 51% signs. There are independent bars within the rodeo.


Also, if signs are posted, how are they not valid? What about the signs posted at George R Brown for gun shows, etc?

They aren't valid because Reliant (and George R. Brown) are owned by the city of Houston. Per §30.06:

Sec. 30.06. TRESPASS BY HOLDER OF LICENSE TO CARRY CONCEALED HANDGUN.
(e) It is an exception to the application of this section that the property on which the license holder carries a handgun is owned or leased by a governmental entity and is not a premises or other place on which the license holder is prohibited from carrying the handgun under Section 46.03 or 46.035.

It's just that nobody has been the test case yet. It would likely take a lawsuit to get the city to stop posting these signs.

[Sidro]

Fees for a prca permit holder are $300 and permit holders are not eligible for all prca rodeos. Full membership is $500 a year and members are overseen by a comittee and are subject to fines and sanctions for certain actions. Have a friend who could explain it better but then again he is a 10 time World Champion Heeler.

[phrogg]

Again, this is just intended for healthy debate here. I'm not looking to create some case law here by getting caught :-).

So to the point of the PRCA. They charge $300/yr to be a permit member. That doesn't mean that you will be able to win or even compete at someone's event, but it does make you a "Professional" by their terms. If you have won at least $1000 over your LIFETIME then you can apply for the Competition Member card which costs $500/yr. But the thing I'm seeing here is that you are never denied membership. So you do not have to earn your way into becoming professional.

However, I do agree that those definitions are what they would use to try and possibly convict me. But by the definitions of Professional above, I'm a professional drag racer, autocross racer, sound engineer, musician, web designer, DJ, barista, pit master, gambler, Oakley collector, eBay seller, and even video gamer!

Ok, so let's ask the question of why was that provision even put in there? I can sure understand the situation where people get very riled up at a sporting event. Riots after (or during) a big football or soccer event or protection for the referees/umpires/judges who might get shot over a bad call. I can see all that. But I don't see a danger in the sporting event when Tiger misses a putt or the rider gets bucked off the bronco http://texaschlforum.com/posting.php?mo ... bf386832da#" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm just seeing a issue with there being no definition and I really feel that the Rodeo is not a "Professional" sporting event. Not intending to knock any riders here. I grew up where the real athletes in my school were rodeo riders and the second class jocks played football.

But as I'm seeing over and over here. Concealed is concealed, better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6, yada yada.

Phrogg

[cbr600]

Ok, so let's ask the question of why was that provision even put in there?

Fear and bigotry.

[hirundo82]

Ok, so let's ask the question of why was that provision even put in there?

Fear and bigotry.

That's as good an explanation of most forms of gun control as I've ever seen.

[Humanphibian]

On a different note...How does the presence of School related livestock competition on the premises affect carry in the livestock and arena areas?