military surplus 7.62

[Drewthetexan]

Someone asked me if I knew the best place to get milsurp 7.62 rounds. Any suggestions?

[dicion]

I assume you mean 7.62x51, and not 7.62x54R?

I have not bought any decent quantity of the former, however,
If you want the Latter, the Sportsman's Guide normally has a good deal running them almost always, and I have purchased a few cases and not been dissapointed.

The Former, well, I'd still check SG first, but I don't know if they have anything good.

[Drewthetexan]

I assume you mean 7.62x51, and not 7.62x54R?

I have not bought any decent quantity of the former, however,
If you want the Latter, the Sportsman's Guide normally has a good deal running them almost always, and I have purchased a few cases and not been dissapointed.

The Former, well, I'd still check SG first, but I don't know if they have anything good.

7.62x51

Still trying to wake up. thanks!

[Drewthetexan]

Someone asked me if I knew the best place to get milsurp 7.62 rounds. Any suggestions?

http://gun-deals.com/ammo.php?caliber=.308" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

.308 = 7.62x51?

[pbwalker]

Someone asked me if I knew the best place to get milsurp 7.62 rounds. Any suggestions?

I would check out http://www.ammoengine.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[dicion]

Yes - that page mostly lists milsurp 7.62x51 NATO along with some commercial .308

Now, seeing as you asked the question, if I were you I would google ".308 vs 7.62" and do some reading, but the generic, rule-of-thumb answer is 7.62 NATO is slightly hotter than commercial .308

I don't like how they list 5.56 with the .223 though.

.308 and 7.62x51 are pretty much the same, enough to be listed together, IMO, however, 5.56 and .223 are different enough that it can cause safety problems, and should be listed separately, also IMO.

For those who don't know, (As I'm pretty sure AndyC does, so this is not directed at him):
.223 can be fired in 5.56 chambered rifles, but do _not_ fire 5.56 in .223 chambered rifles. 5.56 operates at much higher pressures than a strict .223 chamber is rated for.
The cartridge also has a very slightly different size, externally, but has a Large difference in case wall thickness.
Most rifle bolts _will_ close on a 5.56 in a .223 chamber. This gives the illusion of "Oh, it closes, so it's safe to fire" Which is incorrect.
"Wylde" Chambered rifles are designed to shoot both.

Popping primers is a common occurrence when you're shooting 5.56 in a .223 rifle, this explains why ;)

This concludes today's session of .223 vs 5.56

[joe817]

Drew, you might want to check Military Gun Supply in Ft.Worth. They are on East Loop 820, around the Berry St exit area, more or less.

The last time I was in there, about all I saw on the floor was mil surp ammo from all over the world in calibers I've never even heard of...and that kinda surprised me.

http://www.militarygunsupply.com/shop2/ ... x&cPath=32" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here's a picture of their store: http://www.militarygunsupply.com/retail/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[MoJo]

Yes - that page mostly lists milsurp 7.62x51 NATO along with some commercial .308

Now, seeing as you asked the question, if I were you I would google ".308 vs 7.62" and do some reading, but the generic, rule-of-thumb answer is 7.62 NATO is slightly hotter than commercial .308

I don't like how they list 5.56 with the .223 though.

.308 and 7.62x51 are pretty much the same, enough to be listed together, IMO, however, 5.56 and .223 are different enough that it can cause safety problems, and should be listed separately, also IMO.

For those who don't know, (As I'm pretty sure AndyC does, so this is not directed at him):
.223 can be fired in 5.56 chambered rifles, but do _not_ fire 5.56 in .223 chambered rifles. 5.56 operates at much higher pressures than a strict .223 chamber is rated for.
The cartridge also has a very slightly different size, externally, but has a Large difference in case wall thickness.
Most rifle bolts _will_ close on a 5.56 in a .223 chamber. This gives the illusion of "Oh, it closes, so it's safe to fire" Which is incorrect.
"Wylde" Chambered rifles are designed to shoot both.

Popping primers is a common occurrence when you're shooting 5.56 in a .223 rifle, this explains why ;)

This concludes today's session of .223 vs 5.56

I hate to rain on your parade but, the difference is not the cases or how "hot" the NATO ammunition is the difference is the LEADE or FREEBORE of the chamber. The NATO ammunition is loaded with longer heavier bullets requiring more leade in the chamber. .223 is usually loaded with short lighter bullets so the chamber is cut with less leade. The longer NATO ammunition will produce more pressure because the bullet is jammed against the rifling making starting it require more pressure. The Wylde chamber is a long leade chamber.

[Dragonfighter]

Also, be aware most surplus ammo is FMJ and a no-no at a lot of ranges.

[Drewthetexan]

Also, be aware most surplus ammo is FMJ and a no-no at a lot of ranges.

just curious, why?



and thanks all for the rest of the answers. I like that I can ask one question and get more info than I was originally looking for.

[Dragonfighter]

Also, be aware most surplus ammo is FMJ and a no-no at a lot of ranges.

just curious, why?

I'm not sure I know the answer. But I presume it has to do with penetration. I've been to some ranges where all FMJ is not allowed (rediculous) and some where just the rifle loads are restricted and I am seeing more and more of these. Not all ranges are this IANAL I would look at web sites and if you go and don't see a sign, keep yer pie hole shut. There is even a private club/range north of Denton dedicated to .50 cal weapons.

[dicion]

I hate to rain on your parade but, the difference is not the cases or how "hot" the NATO ammunition is the difference is the LEADE or FREEBORE of the chamber. The NATO ammunition is loaded with longer heavier bullets requiring more leade in the chamber. .223 is usually loaded with short lighter bullets so the chamber is cut with less leade. The longer NATO ammunition will produce more pressure because the bullet is jammed against the rifling making starting it require more pressure. The Wylde chamber is a long leade chamber.

I agree that the leade is different as well, but that is separate from the pressure issues.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5.56#5.56m ... _Remington" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; explains how the way the measurements for pressure proof testing differ between SAAMI and NATO EPVAT, and can allow 5.56nato rounds to actually be 20,000psi higher than .223 SAAMI Spec, and still be acceptable. And this is in 5.56 Chambered Barrels with a proper leade for the round, not a 5.56 round chambered in a .223 chambered barrel.

Chambering one of these in a .223 chamber, combined with the leade difference, can make the pressure even higher, yes, but the point is, 5.56 proof testing and .223 proof testing, in their proper respective chambers, can have a major difference in pressure.

A barrel that has been manufactured and proof tested to .223 has the very real possibility of not being able to handle the standard 5.56 pressure, which if NATO measured the same way as SAAMI, would be up to 20,000psi higher.

[gmckinl]

if I were you I would google ".308 vs 7.62" and do some reading, but the generic, rule-of-thumb answer is 7.62 NATO is slightly hotter than commercial .308

Actually,
.308 Win vs. 7.62x51--The Straight Scoop
Before we go much further, we want to address the oft-posed question "Are the .308 Winchester and 7.62x51 NATO one and the same?" The simple answer is no. There are differences in chamber specs and maximum pressures. The SAMMI/CIP maximum pressure for the .308 Win cartridge is 62,000 psi, while the 7.62x51 max is 50,000 psi. Also, the headspace is slightly different. The .308 Win "Go Gauge" is 1.630" vs. 1.635" for the 7.62x51. The .308's "No-Go" dimension is 1.634" vs. 1.6405" for a 7.62x51 "No Go" gauge. That said, it is normally fine to shoot quality 7.62x51 NATO ammo in a gun chambered for the .308 Winchester (though not all NATO ammo is identical). Clint McKee of Fulton Armory notes: "[N]obody makes 7.62mm (NATO) ammo that isn't to the .308 'headspace' dimension spec. So 7.62mm ammo fits nicely into .308 chambers, as a rule." You CAN encounter problems going the other way, however. A commercial .308 Win round can exceed the max rated pressure for the 7.62x51. So, you should avoid putting full-power .308 Win rounds into military surplus rifles that have been designed for 50,000 psi max.

I confirmed the 50K number for the 7.62 today by reading the mil-spec for the standard M80 loading.