Tracing a gun back to you

[marksiwel]

The wife was asking me some gun questions, and I was talking about some dummy saying he would shoot a robber and put a gun in his hand before the cops got there.
She asked if you bought the gun from say Academy would the police be able to trace that gun back to you without using fingerprints, ballistics or your credit card info.
I did not have an answer for her, do they keep the records? Do those records go anywhere? I wanna say no

[Beiruty]

The FFL dealer will keep the sales record and the federal form that your filled and signed when you bought your firearm (or did a transfer) for a long time like 10 yrs. From Serial Number, they can query local dealer and find the original owner. Very easy.

[lil red]

We don't have to register guns in Texas because the store all ready does it for all in tents and purposes.

[AEA]

The FFL dealer will keep the sales record and the federal form that your filled and signed when you bought your firearm (or did a transfer) for a long time like 10 yrs. From Serial Number, they can query local dealer and find the original owner. Very easy.

I have often wondered how this can be accomplished.........

I do not think it can be................stay with me for a few seconds........

How many FFL's (both storefronts and private ones) in the DFW Metroplex? How would a LE Agency (even BATFE) do a query of all the FFL's records in DFW Metroplex looking for a particular serial numbered gun?

Which leads me to my final thought.......
There is already a electronic database of gun serial numbers that are purchased and sold thru the call in check from FFL's when transferring a firearm.

This is not supposed to be in existence, but you can bet your bottom dollar that it is and that my friend is how they trace a serial number back to the purchaser. Not by forms in various FFL's files, but by the information that the FFL gives during the call in for eligibility check that is recorded into the "non-existent" Database.

Bottom line is, CHL's that do not go thru the call in phase do not have their guns in the database (YET........).

Once the time period comes (be it 10 years or whatever) and/or the FFL retires or closes shop and no longer is licensed, He/She has to send in all the 4473's (and bound book of transactions) He/She has accumulated. These are then checked and entered manually into the database if not already there by Federal Employees.

This is my take on it.......
Feel free to correct me. Or if you would like to comment further on the Database that "does not exist".

[srothstein]

The trace is done all the time. It just involves a lot of simple leg work. The police find the gun and know the maker. They go to the maker and he has a record of the distributor he sold the gun to. The police leave and go to the distributor. He has to keep records of the store he sold the gun to. They leave and go to the store. It has the yellow forms showing who they sold the gun to. That is you, when you bought the gun at Academy.

This is a type of registration. It is very flawed because if you sold the gun, you don't tell anyone (in Texas) and the chain stops. The gun could have been sold a dozen times since you owned it. This is why some states do have true registration systems and also require you to use FFL's for every gun transaction.

In other words, if you planted a gun in the criminals hand, and it was your own gun, the cops would find out. The good news is that Texas would not require you to plant a gun in the robbers hands (or drag him inside, another old saw). Our state allows armed self defense to protect property under many conditions.


Sorry, AEA, but having received ATF traces while at the TABC (and telling them we have no record of the disposition), I really don't think they use the NICS data. I do believe it is kept longer than the law allows (overnight system backups mean it gets kept indefinitely) but I don't see them using it yet.

[marksiwel]

this is all useful information, and kind of scary

[AEA]

The trace is done all the time.
Sorry, AEA, but having received ATF traces while at the TABC (and telling them we have no record of the disposition), I really don't think they use the NICS data. I do believe it is kept longer than the law allows (overnight system backups mean it gets kept indefinitely) but I don't see them using it yet.

OK, thanks Steve. That clears me up a bit.

[dewayneward]

The wife was asking me some gun questions, and I was talking about some dummy saying he would shoot a robber and put a gun in his hand before the cops got there.
She asked if you bought the gun from say Academy would the police be able to trace that gun back to you without using fingerprints, ballistics or your credit card info.
I did not have an answer for her, do they keep the records? Do those records go anywhere? I wanna say no

I think y'all are missing a big issue here...the wife is asking the hubby about guns and questions about placing a gun on the body so it looks like it was self defense. Marksiwel, have there been discussions in the house about raising life insurance premiums on you

If my wife started asking me questions about this I'd be a little nervous (course I just finished watching a TV show about spouses that hire hitmen to kill their significant other so I am a bit paranoid right now, ha ha)

[bdickens]

I'm just really nice to my wife so I won't have to worry about that.

[karder]

While I would not support planting a gun on anyone, it is not hard to get a gun which can't be connected to you via serial number. Just buy one out of the paper for cash and don't give your real name. In a justified shooting, planting a gun is unnecessary and could lead to some very serious implications if you get caught.

[Salty1]

The trace is very easy if they have the gun or seriel number, they go to the manufacturer who tells them who the distributor was, the distributor tells them the FFL. They visit the FFL, look in the Firearms log book as to who purchased the gun. they can trace it definatly that far, if private sales were involved then it could go cold, personally I would not want to be the owner of record. Therefore I get identification and Bill of Sale on any firearm I sell personally so it can be traced past me.

[rm9792]

Just go pay cash for a big scary Rambo knife and plant that. But like it was said before, this is unnecessary in Texas.