To Chamber or not to Chamber?

[VoiceofReason]

... does anyone know of any insurance a CHL holder can purchase that would provide legal representation if needed?

Search this forum for chlpp.com. That will get you a bunch of threads about that company and some others.

I have no opinion on such insurance.

- Jim

Thanks Jim. I will check it out.

[Skiprr]

To skiprr
I appreciate your welcome and your thanks. You are the only person to ever have thanked me for my LEO service.

I am astounded...and disquieted.

That's just not right.

This is off-topic, but our federal, state, county, and municipal law enforcement officers make a profession of going into harms-way. They are professional sheepdogs.

The least we can do is thank them.

[USA1]

This is off-topic, but our federal, state, county, and municipal law enforcement officers make a profession of going into harms-way. They are professional sheepdogs.

The least we can do is thank them.

And lets not forget the Firefighters .

[texas1234]

I have spent some very good money on several custom holsters for my Glock. When its in the holster it is loaded. I carry a full size Glock 21 .45 at all times. Between the holsters and the Glock I dont worry about it. The only time I have ever witnessed an accidental discharge was when the trigger was pulled. When I was in the Marines a DPS Officer who was a reservist decided to check his safety on a 249 SAW with the trigger. Needless to say he was removed from practice that day. And needless to say he hurt his pride and ego a little as well, I dont know if it was the Marine part of him that said that was the stupidest thing i have ever done, or if it was the DPS Officer part of him that said that was the stupidest thing I have ever done.

[adam71176]

Before I got my CHL, and for a brief time afterward I was very nervous about keeping one in the chamber. As I have gotten more comfortable wearing a weapon I would not even consider not having a round chambered.

[03Lightningrocks]

Here is what is in Kimber manual about the half cocked position on page 17. They recommend against it.

HAMMER SAFETY STOP
The hammer safety stop is a notch on the
hammer which prevents it from falling fully forward
in the event of primary sear notch failure. It also
prevents fingers slip from the slide or hammer
while cocking the pistol, provided the hammer has
been moved past the stop. The safety stop is not
a manual safety! Do not under any circumstances
use the safety stop as a “half cock” position. This
misuse can result in damage to the sear, and/or
unintentional discharge of the pistol. The safety
stop position is an automatically engaging safety
feature and should never be engaged by hand!

[VoiceofReason]

Page 4:
Always store and carry this product empty, with
the hammer forward on an empty chamber.
Failure to do so could result in an unintentional
discharge.

Page 6:
Safe Carrying Condition: Never carry this pistol
cocked, loaded and ready to fire as this practice
could easily result in an unintentional discharge.
Do not carry a loaded gun with a live round in
the chamber while walking, running or crossing
any obstacle, where there is any possibility of
slipping or falling as this could lead to a
possible unintentional discharge.

Back of manual:
BASIC NRA RULES FOR SAFE GUN
HANDLING
3. ALWAYS KEEP THE GUN UNLOADED
UNTIL READY TO USE.

"Officer injured in accidental shooting at West Valley school
According to Sgt. Lisa Mendoza, with the Tolleson Police Department, Officer Ray Granillo's gun discharged while it was still in the holster sometime after 12:30 p.m."

We had one police officer in Houston involved in an automobile accident who’s gun discharged when his car was struck by another car.

We had another officer in Houston who accidently shot his horse. I assume his gun was holstered “cocked and locked”.

This discussion could go on for years with each person finding documentation to support his/her preference.

In a prior post I described the method I use to lower the hammer to the “half cock” position with a round in the chamber. I believe it is a safe method. I also check all functions of my Kimber on a regular basis. I believe it comes down to a matter of preference.

[vinnier6]

if your dont have a round in the chamber while you carry, your wrong...period....if you dont want to experience an acidental discharge, dont put your finger on the trigger until you want to shoot....its just that simple.

[VoiceofReason]

if your dont have a round in the chamber while you carry, your wrong...period....if you dont want to experience an acidental discharge, dont put your finger on the trigger until you want to shoot....its just that simple.

And your qualifications that make you an authority?

I carry eight in the clip, one in the chamber and on “half cock” for which I have been criticized.

I realize some people are not comfortable carrying one in the chamber but I would not presume to tell them they are wrong. As long as a person carries safely, it is a personal decision how they carry.

[03Lightningrocks]

LOL...so...you choose to blow off the part about not carrying half cocked, the part about damaging the firearm and the part about not carrying a round chambered???? They plainly tell you your wrong. Make of it what you want.

PS I forgot to point out one more flaw in your choice of carry. You cannot engage the thumb safety when the gun is "half cocked".

[03Lightningrocks]

One more thing. No gun has ever just gone off on it's own. The officers involved in all those cases most likely wanted to avoid being embarrassed by doing such ignorant things so they claimed the gun just "went off". I guess that would sound better than...I was fiddling around with my gun and accidentally pulled the trigger.

[arnoldstrong]

if your dont have a round in the chamber while you carry, your wrong...period....if you dont want to experience an acidental discharge, dont put your finger on the trigger until you want to shoot....its just that simple.

I tend to agree...When I first began to carry, I was more than a bit nervous to carry a Glock with one in the pipe. A good friend (and policeman) told me to practice drawing and sitting and doing all my daily activities with an UNLOADED weapon and try to make the trigger go back unintentionally. I was able to prove to myself that in the proper holster it just wont happen. Obviously a certain amount of care and concentration will always be needed. But in this man's opinion, it seems bad to have one more step between me and bullets if they are to be needed. I also tend to think of how many weapons are being carried chambered at any given time---that is a very big number and we really don't hear about that many NDs.....

[jeeperbryan]

Let me just start by saying I am a gun guy, through and through. I've been around guns my entire life and carry everyday. However, I do not carry with one in the chamber. That's just the way I've been brought up so it's most comfortable for me. I've heard tons of stories about accidental discharges of all kinds. Whether its an LEO, military, curious kids, or dummy that forgot to clear the chamber before cleaning their gun. But I've rarely heard the story of someone that drew their gun, couldn't get the slide racked in time, and was killed by the BG. I'm sure they're out there, but not near as common.

My choice is a matter of risk and probability:

1) I figure the probability of an AD is very low (say 1%) because I follow the golden rule and treat every gun as if it's loaded, always. However, the probability of an AD is non-existant (0%) if I do not have a round chambered. With a round chambered, you cannot argue the probability of an AD is 0%. That 1% can be mechanical, environmental, or human error, but there is no denying that there is some probability (even if it's one in a million) of an AD.

2) I figure the probability that I will ever need to draw my gun is very low (hopefully never). It is probably a very, very low probability for the average person (civilian, don't live in dangerous area, etc) as well.

Comparing the two risks, I feel that the probability of an AD is higher than the probability that I would ever need to draw my gun. And I feel that the probability of an AD is much, much higher than the probability that I would ever need to draw my gun, and wouldn't have the time to rack the slide.

[frazzled]

Good summary of that side of the argument. I can understand both sides on this issue, and both sides have strong points.

[TTUchris]

I really hope the chance of an AD is lower than 1%. That would imply that there is an AD approximately once every 100 instances of carrying, so about 3-4 per year . I understand your argument, though - that carrying with one in the chamber inherently makes your chance of an AD go over 0%, but I think it's in the neighborhood of .0001%. I'm probably reading too much into it, but I'm a bit of a math nerd.