Delay: "Disposition information"

[ferretray]

Talk about bureacratic bull. I applied for the Tx CHL awhile back and listed a couple of offenses from over twenty years ago. A DUI and two non-violent, non-sexual misdemeanors.
I get a letter of delay. Apparently I have to submit "certified copies of the judgement and sentence from the courts". These offenses are not in themselves disqualifying, why should it be an issue.
I contacted the licensing bureau and the e-mails just resulted in red-tape bureaucratic double-talk.
PS. I've held a Florida CCW for many years. Its recognized by Texas. Ain't that somethin'. Guess I could just renew my Florida license and be done with it.

[Zee]

Yes, what a load. I thought part of the $140 was for them to to the check, not us. I had to track down a 30 year old arrest record without charges. My fear is they'll want certified proof of no charges. I don't know how to prove the absence of something. I'm waiting.

Call the records clerk of that county and let them know what you need and why. Charges should be $5-10. This falls under open records.

[ferretray]

One of these incidents occured in Alabama. Their records aren't even computerized, AFAIK. I'll have to hire an attorney there to take a walk over to the county clerk, or whatever it is they have there in gooberville.
I'll have to spend more money for San Diego, Ca. Their computer database erases any misdemeanor record after 10 years. This information took a few minutes of research on the internet. So I'll be paying to acquire a letter saying there is no record of the offense. Reckon the DPS bereuacrats should be doing this, and paying for it. Thats what the application fee is for, right?
So I've got one office flunky that should be communicating with other office flunkies and instead, I'm doing their work for them.

[Zee]

I'm only familar with Texas. It does sound like a headache but you might as well continue. Maybe someone here has some first-hand info on the other states and you can avoid being taken to the cleaners by an out-of-state person.

[seamusTX]

One of these incidents occured in Alabama. Their records aren't even computerized, AFAIK.

Have you called the county courthouse there?

They usually can't find records of old arrests that did not result in convictions, especially if charges were dropped. The records go into storage, and eventually get burned, flooded, or eaten by mice.

In that case, the court clerk can issue a letter that says they have no record of your arrest or conviction.

I had that done for an arrest in another state where I misspent my youth.

As to why you have to provide the disposition documentation, it's specified in the law:

Government Code 411.174(b)(7): criminal history record information of the type maintained by the department under this chapter, including a list of offenses for which the applicant was arrested, charged, or under an information or indictment and the disposition of the offenses;

Personally, I think this requirement is unnecessary. You shouldn't have to provide disposition information for an arrest that did not result in a conviction and which would not be a disqualification even if there was a conviction.

The flip side of this issue is that some states have issued their equivalent of a CHL to actual felons whose convictions were not in whatever national database this information is in. That gives licensed concealed-carry programs a black eye.

- Jim

[Zee]

Ferretray: I'm curious, how many days into the processing was it when you hit this snag?

[ferretray]

Ferretray: I'm curious, how many days into the processing was it when you hit this snag?

A few weeks, why?

[Zee]

For my own situation I'm hoping if there's a snag I'll hear about it asap rather than have them set it somewhere and let weeks pass. Just my impatience.

This days count obession around here reminds me of those endless roadtrips as a kid with me chinning myself on the backseat yelling at my parents, "How much longer, how much longer?"

[joe817]

This days count obession around here reminds me of those endless roadtrips as a kid with me chinning myself on the backseat yelling at my parents, "How much longer, how much longer?"

Are we there yet? Are we there yet?

I know that feeling ALL to well Zee! Good one!

[seamusTX]

Are we there yet? Are we there yet?

"If you don't pipe down, I'm going to stop this car and come back there."

- Jim

[joe817]

Yeah, that too!

[rdhetrick]

FerretRay,

I'll second or third what others have said. Having gone through quite a hassle myself, I can sympathize with what you are going through.

I would first call the county clerks office and talk to them. Depending on the size of the county, they might give you some information over the phone. I ended up having to have a notarized letter requesting any information related to my case. The clerk emailed my the documents I needed, but she would have sent certified copies if I needed them. The clerk from the county was real pleasant, but I think it had a lot to do with the fact that it was a small rural county, and she probably was waiting for something to do.

I think what you are after is a certified letter from the clerk stating that they have no record of charges against you.

Good Luck!

[ferretray]

FerretRay,

I'll second or third what others have said. Having gone through quite a hassle myself, I can sympathize with what you are going through.

I would first call the county clerks office and talk to them. Depending on the size of the county, they might give you some information over the phone. I ended up having to have a notarized letter requesting any information related to my case. The clerk emailed my the documents I needed, but she would have sent certified copies if I needed them. The clerk from the county was real pleasant, but I think it had a lot to do with the fact that it was a small rural county, and she probably was waiting for something to do.

I think what you are after is a certified letter from the clerk stating that they have no record of charges against you.

Good Luck!

The inbred drone I dealt with on the phone was dumber than a box of rocks and friendly as a irritated snake. I'll have to hire someone to walk across the street and get what I need, I reckon'.

[koolaid]

One of these incidents occured in Alabama. Their records aren't even computerized, AFAIK. I'll have to hire an attorney there to take a walk over to the county clerk, or whatever it is they have there in gooberville.
I'll have to spend more money for San Diego, Ca. Their computer database erases any misdemeanor record after 10 years. This information took a few minutes of research on the internet. So I'll be paying to acquire a letter saying there is no record of the offense. Reckon the DPS bereuacrats should be doing this, and paying for it. Thats what the application fee is for, right?
So I've got one office flunky that should be communicating with other office flunkies and instead, I'm doing their work for them.

I feel for you. It ended up costing me $500 and several months to get a piece of paper saying that the court in question didn't have any records on me. I actually had trouble convincing the out of state lawyer I was using to even get the records search done because there was no possible way a record of the incident would exist in the court system because there were never any charges brought and he couldn't figure out why someone would need written documentation of something impossible.

There is no reason DPS needs this sort of documentation for arrests (especially with no charges) that would not be a disqualification even if there was a conviction. There is a clearly defined set of things that will disqualify you from being able to hold a license. What reason is there for them to know anything beyond that?

I'm of the opinion that if you can pass a NICS check to purchase and own a new firearm, and can demonstrate that you understand the law as written, you should be able to carry. I can't even imagine what the backlash would be if this kind of drama was involved in applying for a drivers license...something not constitutionally protected, available to younger citizens, and which is a much more dangerous activity.

I also can't imagine if drivers ed courses consisted of so much conjecture and desperate attempts to figure out what the law actually allows.

[seamusTX]

A problem with the Texas CHL law is that NICS did not exist when it was passed. The CHL law went into effect in 1995. NICS was rolled out in 1998.

Some reform of the Texas background checks should be on the agenda for the next legislative session.

Whether that will happen depends upon how much financial support the TSRA PAC receives in the next year and a half (hint, hint).

- Jim