A disappointing State Fair episode 10-1-09

[srothstein]

I agree with TFrazier. In addition, I would point out that we, as a group of concerned individuals, seem to have gotten as far as we can with this right now. I do not know all of the tactics involved in anything political (or I would be President instead of Obama), but if we are going to get a law passed to correct this, TSRA may have to stand aloof from this immediate fight while they figure out the best way to address the law. Many of our best friends in the legislature like to do things quietly and avoid big public fights. This is especially true when you consider how few people this involves and what the general attitude of the public may be.

I have a lot of faith in the work of the TSRA. I believe that they will know to address this issue and are just working on the strategy and tactics of how to get a permanent fix in place.

On the NRA side, I am going to guess that they would refer this to the state group. Especially in states like ours, where there is a strong state gun group, I would think the NRA would prefer to let us address state issues ourselves. Think how this would play on the national news and what the rest of the country would say. It would get there if the NRA gets directly and publicly involved. That would also draw in some of our national enemies, like the Brady group.

[boomerang]

I wonder why there were no issues the first 1/2 of the fair and now they changed the rules on us? Guns will always be a "hot button" topic so even if there was 1 incident with someone leaving their gun on a ride it's 1 time too many

What if it was a cop? Are the gate clerks recording their info? How about celebrity or political bodyguards?

[gemini]

I wonder why there were no issues the first 1/2 of the fair and now they changed the rules on us? Guns will always be a "hot button" topic so even if there was 1 incident with someone leaving their gun on a ride it's 1 time too many

What if it was a cop? Are the gate clerks recording their info? How about celebrity or political bodyguards?

or how about the exhibitors or vendors.....are they all being wanded, their information being recorded everyday....this is taken from the 2009 State Fair of Texas "Guidelines for Exhibitors" (P.6 item 26.)

26. Exhibitors are strictly prohibited from carrying a weapon or firearm within Fair Park or within the
exhibit space, unless such person is licensed by the State of Texas to carry a concealed handgun
and complies with such laws. Unlicensed persons carrying a firearm onto Fair Park premises will
be subject to a Class A misdemeanor, punishable by up to 1 year in jail and a $4,000 fine.

[chabouk]

Long time lurker. Newly registered. First post.

Question for those who have been "delayed" at the gate: What kept you from walking right on into the fair? Most have said they were screened, then told to stand aside and wait. It's not like the person with the wand is going to abandon post and chase you down, and if it takes 20-30 minutes for the security supervisor to get there, it doesn't sound like they have a quick reaction team.

Why not just smile, say "okay" when directed to go wait, then waltz right on in?

[Brazos]

I wonder why there were no issues the first 1/2 of the fair and now they changed the rules on us? Guns will always be a "hot button" topic so even if there was 1 incident with someone leaving their gun on a ride it's 1 time too many

What if it was a cop? Are the gate clerks recording their info? How about celebrity or political bodyguards?

or how about the exhibitors or vendors.....are they all being wanded, their information being recorded everyday....this is taken from the 2009 State Fair of Texas "Guidelines for Exhibitors" (P.6 item 26.)

26. Exhibitors are strictly prohibited from carrying a weapon or firearm within Fair Park or within the
exhibit space, unless such person is licensed by the State of Texas to carry a concealed handgun
and complies with such laws. Unlicensed persons carrying a firearm onto Fair Park premises will
be subject to a Class A misdemeanor, punishable by up to 1 year in jail and a $4,000 fine.

Unbelievable. How would they be able to wand every exhibitor in and out each day anyway. I'd bet my STI it's not happening. No way.

Different set of rules for the exhibitors. Just one more inconsistency.

Maybe the gun Ledbetter supposedly found was an exhibitor's. This whole thing has me sideways.

I'm not waiting on TSRA or anyone else to do what I need to do as an individual.

[tfrazier]

Why not just smile, say "okay" when directed to go wait, then waltz right on in?

Because that would likely turn a sympathetic DPD officer into an unsympathetic authority if the gatekeeper happened to alert one who was close by. Upon detainment and questioning it would become apparent to the LEO that you purposely ignored the gatekeeper's instruction.

Not good for perception of CHL holders, IMHO.

[chamberc]

Oh, ok, thanks. I've just read another thread about the fair on this and other forums and got the wrong impression that everything was ok the first few weeks. It may of just been this selective enforcement. I like the poster's idea a few pages back about picking the line where the attendent seems the most disinterested.

Part of the problem is it was not being done consistently. And in the past few years, there has been no hassle for CHL'ers at all. I haven't been this year mainly because of this issue, but in the past couple of years, it's been very easy entry... they've obviously changed their policy, and it just plain sucks.

[texred1]

I went to the fair yesterday.

When I get to the wand person, I showed my CHL. She instructed me to see the LEO on the stand next to the gate.

I produce CHL and DL for the officer.
He states "do you really think you are gonna need that today?"
I responded "you never know when you are going to need it."
He says "inside the fair is pretty safe place"
I responded "it is not inside the fair that I am worried about"

He then waves at the wand person to let me in. He did not record any of my information.

~d

[Shorts]

Can someone start showing up at the gates with video cameras to record this please? I wonder if the presence of a camera would change how these gate keepers are doing their job.

The weather is terrible and I'm swamped with work but I'm considering heading over there just to do this for myself.

And if the wander hollers out "CHL here" - tell them to lower their voice and be more discrete about it.

How about a good handful of CHLer trying to get in at different gates at the same time. Do golf carts run out of gas?

[tfrazier]

...He states "do you really think you are gonna need that today?"...

~d

Unbelievable! I would have pointed to his gun and said, "About as much as you think you might need yours."

What a stupid thing for a cop to say. I carried as a cop for eight years and only had to fire my gun once. But I still carried every day, not because I thought I'd need it any particular day, but on the off chance that I might need it. No different for CHL holders...that's why any of us carry.

[Purplehood]

I went to the fair yesterday.

When I get to the wand person, I showed my CHL. She instructed me to see the LEO on the stand next to the gate.

I produce CHL and DL for the officer.
He states "do you really think you are gonna need that today?"
I responded "you never know when you are going to need it."
He says "inside the fair is pretty safe place"
I responded "it is not inside the fair that I am worried about"

He then waves at the wand person to let me in. He did not record any of my information.

~d

Oh, can you tell me which day is best to carry?

[chamberc]

He states "do you really think you are gonna need that today?"
~d

If we knew that, we'd stay in our house on those days. This LEO is obviously a moron.

[Shorts]

He states "do you really think you are gonna need that today?"
~d

If we knew that, we'd stay in our house on those days. This LEO is obviously a moron.

Well, "moron" is fairly broad term.


Was this LEO a younger guy or a veteran-looking fellow? I'm seeing a trend that the younger ones are sort of skittish and don't always feel law-abiding citizens should have firearms. The older guys are more laid back and have been around the block, so to speak and understand the practicality of CHL and guns in general.


I do think his reply was antagonistic and ignorant. I don't know if there's any off the books policy about general LEO conduct but I always hoped that LEOs would foster a sense of "do what's right, do what you can to take care of yourself but if you need help, we'll be there". Is that so hard?

[tfrazier]

...If we knew that, we'd stay in our house on those days. This LEO is obviously a moron.

Kinda like "I heard 90% of all crashes occur within a mile of the victim's residence...so I moved."

P.S. I recently visited some of my old buddies in Greenville, including the Chief and Assistant Chief of Police. Happy to say those guys are still red blooded Americans, like most LEO's in the state of Texas. Maybe this particular DPD officer was a transplant from some region where they are arrogant enough to think only police and military should have firearms. The FBI academy and the state run universities are certainly having a bad impact on law enforcement these days...more and more of the rookies are turning out to be authoritarian liberals who forget their primary responsibility is to protect the freedom of the innocent. God bless 'em all for putting their lives on the line and standing in the gap, though.

[kidder014]

How about a good handful of CHLer trying to get in at different gates at the same time. Do golf carts run out of gas?

I like this idea. Who's up for a CHL Fair day? Maybe if we all show up at once it will make a bigger impact on their thoughts of this "policy"... you know, make their policy more of a hassle to them rather than us.