Getting Open Carry legislation introduced ??

[C-dub]

I agree that the choice would be nice. I've been in a couple of states where open carry was legal, but didn't choose to do so. It just wasn't right for me at that time. I think the only reason I would open carry would be a matter of convenience due to weather or clothing options for whatever activity I would be attending. However, if I had to choose I would definitely support the Parking Lot Bill over open carry first. Open carry would not solve the problem of my employer not allowing us to keep our weapons in our vehicle in the company lot.

[Count]

It's already legal to have a gun in your car in parking lots, even for people carrying with MPA, so I think making open carry legal is more useful.

[joe817]

It's already legal to have a gun in your car in parking lots, even for people carrying with MPA, so I think making open carry legal is more useful.

Unless of course, if the parking lots are posted with a valid 30.06 sign, or on school property(any school) or your employer prohibits it via effective notice.

[Count]

It's already legal to have a gun in your car in parking lots, even for people carrying with MPA, so I think making open carry legal is more useful.

Unless of course, if the parking lots are posted with a valid 30.06 sign, or on school property(any school) or your employer prohibits it via effective notice.

School parking lots are not off limits in Texas law, and Texas law can't repeal Federal law.

Parking lots on private property should be treated the same as any other private property.

[joe817]

School parking lots are not off limits in Texas law, and Texas law can't repeal Federal law.

This has been discussed up and down many times before, and I believe the general consensus is that carrying a gun into a school parking lot can get you in a lot of trouble if caught. For the reasons being:

"PC 46.03 Places Weapons Prohibited.a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses or goes with a firearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon listed in Section 46.05(a):

(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution, any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or educational institution is public or private, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the institution;[etc, etc.]."

Now before you go quoting PC 46.035(f)(3):"(3) "Premises" means a building or a portion of a building. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area....etc, etc" , which appears to exclude a school parking lot, I'd like to direct your attention to:

PC 46.11. Penalty If Offense Committed Within Weapons-Free School Zone.
"PC 46.11(c) In this section: (1) "Institution of higher education" and "premises" have the meanings assigned by Section 481.134, Health and Safety Code. (2) "School" means a private or public elementary or secondary school."

Going to Sect. 481.134 of the Health And Safety Code, we find:
481.134(4) "Premises" means real property and all buildings and appurtenances pertaining to the real property."

So, as I read that, a parking lot is part of the real property of a school, and the "premises" thereof.

In conclusion I submit to you that parking lots are a part of the gun-free zone of a school, and you cannot carry into a parking lot, nor can you store in your car a gun that's in a school parking lot without violating the law.

With that said I'm certainly no lawyer, and what I've stated above is enough for me to avoid carrying anywhere on any school property including the parking lot. And I will be governed by that belief. You may have a different belief and that's fine by me.

For me, it's certainly a very difficult area to fully understand. I just do not believe a blanket statement such as "School parking lots are not off limits in Texas law, and Texas law can't repeal Federal law.", should be left as a simple statement without full justification, lest someone accept that as an absolute truth, follow it and get arrested for unlawfully carrying.

If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. But I have no qualms about attempting to justify my position or belief, AND my future conduct.

[redoregon]

May I be so bold as to quote from the Texas Attorney General Opinions page on the Texas DPS web page http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administra ... sindex.htm:

The term "premises" as used in section 46.035 "means a building or a portion of a building. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area." Penal Code § 46.035(f)(3); see also id. § 46.035(f)(1) (providing that the term "amusement park" does not include "any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area."). This definition of "premises" was added after a witness testified in committee hearings on Senate Bill 60 that case law defines "premises" broadly, to include parking lots, driveways, and land adjacent to a building. Hearings on S.B. 60 Before the House Comm. on Public Safety, 74th Leg., R.S. (March 21, 1995) (testimony of Charles Cotten) (tape available from House Video/Audio Services Office). He was concerned that an individual who went someplace where concealed guns were prohibited would commit a crime by driving into the driveway. Id. He felt that the legislature intended that an individual could leave his gun in the car when he or she went into such a building. Id. Thus, while section 46.035 prohibits the carrying of a handgun at the foregoing places, it does not prohibit the carrying of a handgun in the driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area of a business that sells alcoholic beverages, a high school, collegiate, or professional sporting event or interscholastic event, correctional facility, hospital or nursing home, amusement park, or church, synagogue, or other established place of religious worship.

There's a good amount of other interesting information there as well:

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administra ... hl/AGO.HTM" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Later Edit...]
Hey, wait a minute.. Charles Cotten... where have I heard that name before....? Oh wait, the bad spelling got me. Mr. Cotton, was that you and we can't even trust our government to spell?

[boomerang]

PC 46.11. Penalty If Offense Committed Within Weapons-Free School Zone.
"PC 46.11(c) In this section: (1) "Institution of higher education" and "premises" have the meanings assigned by Section 481.134, Health and Safety Code. (2) "School" means a private or public elementary or secondary school."

OK. The penalty is increased if an offense is committed there, but that doesn't mean it's illegal to have a bible in a school parking lot.

Note also that your quoted statute doesn't include colleges and universities, the focus of the campus carry movement.

[Liberty]

Like other people said in previous discussions, open carry works in pro-gun places but Texas isn't ready.

Most states that are open carry aren't particularly gun friendly. Massachussetts, Virginia, Pennselvania Mininisota and Wisconson have reputations for being particularly tough gun laws. Texas has self defence and carry laws that are among the best out of the 50. Its hard to measure, but some states have better carry laws, they might not be so supportive when it comes to exersising the right to defend your life limb or property. 2 Huge rights that we have recently gained is the Motorrist Protection Act and the Castle Doctrine.

[Keith B]

It's already legal to have a gun in your car in parking lots, even for people carrying with MPA, so I think making open carry legal is more useful.

Unless of course, if the parking lots are posted with a valid 30.06 sign, or on school property(any school) or your employer prohibits it via effective notice.

School parking lots are not off limits in Texas law, and Texas law can't repeal Federal law.

Parking lots on private property should be treated the same as any other private property.

School parking lots ARE off limits under the Gun Free School Zone Act if you do not have a CHL issued by the state you are in.

30.06 signs are not valid on school parking lots either as they are government property. Some schools have them posted, but they are really not legally binding. Private property parking lots are a different matter and CAN be posted with a valid 30.06 and be off-limits.

[C-dub]

I carry into and out of my daughter's school parking lot dropping her off and picking her up. We live close enough to walk and when we do I still carry then. Since I don't have anywhere to secure my gun I don't enter any of the building when we walk. There are several LEO fathers that know this and have said that as long as I do not enter any of the buildings I'm okay. A couple of them are LEO in the city the school is in. I know LEO's are not always the best source for information like this, but if they already acknowledge they don't see anything wrong with what I'm doing then it sounds good enough to me.

Schools are government property and unable to legally post 30.06? I think this is the first time I've heard this. I've never given any real thought as to who owned the property, but have always known that the schools were funded by the people through property taxes and probably by the government itself somehow. I know that in 2005 the Texas Supreme Court declared the whole "Robin Hood" aspect of state funding for lower income school districts unconstitutional. I find the probability that a school cannot legally post a 30.06 sign in their parking lots very interesting. In other threads I thought this had been discussed and determined to be legally doable. Hmmm.

[Keith B]

I carry into and out of my daughter's school parking lot dropping her off and picking her up. We live close enough to walk and when we do I still carry then. Since I don't have anywhere to secure my gun I don't enter any of the building when we walk. There are several LEO fathers that know this and have said that as long as I do not enter any of the buildings I'm okay. A couple of them are LEO in the city the school is in. I know LEO's are not always the best source for information like this, but if they already acknowledge they don't see anything wrong with what I'm doing then it sounds good enough to me.

Schools are government property and unable to legally post 30.06? I think this is the first time I've heard this. I've never given any real thought as to who owned the property, but have always known that the schools were funded by the people through property taxes and probably by the government itself somehow. I know that in 2005 the Texas Supreme Court declared the whole "Robin Hood" aspect of state funding for lower income school districts unconstitutional. I find the probability that a school cannot legally post a 30.06 sign in their parking lots very interesting. In other threads I thought this had been discussed and determined to be legally doable. Hmmm.

With a Texas resident CHL, you can carry on Texas school property as long as you don't enter the building and as long as there is not a school sponsored function (football game, per rally, etc. etc. going on.) Sounds like the officers know this and that is why they say it is OK.

Schools run off of tax money. Anything that is funded by taxes are legally a government entity. Government entities in Texas can't post a 30.06 for their property, unless it is posted for the meeting of a government entity, and that would be covered by the school sponsored event anyway. There are schools that have them posted (Plano does, and some others) but they are not legally enforceable IMO (IANAL though)

[C-dub]

Plano! That's the one I was thinking of. I wonder if there's been any clarification of this by the Plano PD or courts, but I doubt it.

[boomerang]

30.06 signs are not valid on school parking lots either as they are government property. Some schools have them posted, but they are really not legally binding. Private property parking lots are a different matter and CAN be posted with a valid 30.06 and be off-limits.

Private schools obviously fall under the private property rule.

[C-dub]

Private schools obviously fall under the private property rule.

I think he mentioned that in another post. Fortunately, this is the circumstance for me and I think it is unlikely that mine would post such a sign.

[SA-TX]

...
It is definitely up to the open carry folks though to gain support of the tried and true gun rights groups that have done so much for the 2nd amendment in our state. Their approach last session was not acceptable.

I agree. As a member of both this forum and OpenCarry.org, I spoke my mind in both places. I do think that some of the tactics used last time were over the top and counter-productive (such as threatening proven pro-gun members with defeat). On the other hand, OCDO raised money, got ads on the radio and on billboards, and was a major reason why the petition garnered as many signatures as it did. It was also quite a feat to get Land Commissioner Patterson, Governor Perry and others to comment publically on the issue (Patterson positively, Perry non-commital).

I completely agree that TSRA and CHL-holders generally need to better understand the issue and see how it affects them. That the issue is greater freedom of choice for the CHL-holder. The topic needs to be explored by looking at the issues -- or lack thereof -- in other states, particularly those such as our neighbors Louisiana and New Mexico. Why is it that they can be trusted but Texans can't? For this reason as well as for the other fine work they've done (mentioned above and with which I totally agree), I joined TSRA last year as a life member and I encourage others to do the same.

I really encourage all gun owners and CHL-holders to think broadly and consider more than your own interests. For example, I'm not a hunter but I'd never support restrictions on game land or leases that would be bad for sportsmen. I don't own any .50 caliber weapons, but I'm 100% against bans for them. I no longer go to college nor will I probably ever do so again, but I whole heartedly support campus carry. I believe that open carry falls into the same category. Divided by our own personal preferences, we fail. United as gun owners, we cannot be beat.

I'm hopeful that the 2010 elections will bring more friends of our into the Legislature as President Obama isn't on the ballot and it is likely that some who came out specifically to support him won't do so in an off-year election. That could mean easier sledding in the 2011 session for all pro-gun bills. Hopefully Speaker Strauss is now fully aware of what the house Dems are capable of and will structure the legislative calendar accordingly.

SA-TX