WHEW! Weird experience on Saturday at HEB

[TLE2]

My two cents would be that the "threat" was a little over the top. If he had made any threatening move other than grabbing the basket, I might say different: were both hands visible and on the basket? did he indicate violence?

Secondly, when I have been confronted with an indigent person, at least in two specific circumstances, I believe I was confronted by "angels unaware". I was given a chance to do the Christian thing and I did the selfish thing. I each instance the cost was small but I chose to keep what was requested: an apple, and a sandwich.

Now, my confrontations were different: I was not alone, I had a back out path, and I was in a very public place. That I regret my actions, and the little cost to me if I had complied, have followed me for a long time.

I know that you're situation was different, and you were in a tight situation, literally. (and yes, my bleeding heart is showing a little, probably because it's Sunday and I'm with my family ).

[03Lightningrocks]

I am not sure how some of you fellers think you can determine the level of the threat when approached aggressively by a stranger in a parking lot. I have been approached by bums all over the country and I can say that I am quite mean and nasty at them. How dare they think they have some kind of right to approach me or my family begging for anything. Personally, I have nothing but contempt for a person who is healthy enough to hang around parking lots begging but not healthy enough to get a job at the grocery store bagging groceries. They are dangerous in my opinion. They are about one step away from just stealing what they want.

I have issued every conceivable threat known to these blights on the community. My first words are always..."Get Away From Me". They have about a tenth of a second to start moving the other direction before I begin to move aggressively at them. The next warning is always more aggressive than the first and usually includes one or more of the following... "or I will beat the tar out of you", "or I will break your neck", or "I will run over you with my truck", "or I will knock you out with this (insert what ever I am holding that can knock a person out), "or you won't have to worry about eating anymore". Admittedly, I have never said "or I will shoot you in the face"...LOL...I love this one and may use it myself one day, but the single most relevant reason I never say "or I will shoot you" is because I like my gun defense to be a surprise and don't want to let them know I have it until I say "stop or I will reload".

I am kidding around just a little here, just a little cause I have said some of these things when approached in public by strangers, but I feel bums and vagabonds deserve to be treated like rodents. These folks are typically desperate and this makes them somewhat dangerous. You folks that say the poster was wrong to get aggressive may very well find yourselves at an extreme disadvantage in a mugging some day. Many muggings start out as an approach asking for cigarettes, food, quarters, change...what ever. Why allow them to get close enough to do damage? This risk may be OK for you. For me......I will continue to get mid-evil on any stranger approaching me in public.

You want to do something Christian? Tell them to get a job. Rewarding the bum behavior only encourages it to continue.

[heliguy972]

You should have immediately called the police. You were threatened with robbery. The police should have come out and questioned the guy. He may be wanted or be a known person with a mental illness. He might have caused harm to someone who didn't know how to handle the situation....

[one eyed fatman]

I would've used different wording to help avoid legal entanglement, but I would've used muscular language to be sure...

How in the hell do you do that? Do you dig out your little lawyer dictionary of legal phrases? Dial up" You've got an instant lawyer" on your blueberry? And if you spout off some lawyer lingo how do you get the perp to understand it? Do you hand him your blueberry so he can dial up a "Perps R US" law firm so they can translate what you just told him? Face it guys in any given situation your on your own. I kind of liked the "you want a bullet in your face" theme. It worked well, was very well understood and it defused the situation rather quickly. Your best defense in any situation is common sense. Leave the lawyering to the lawyers.

[LaserTex]

He was on the opposite corner this afternoon. On the WalGreen's side of the road. At least he is out of HEB's hair...

Doug

[rangefinderII]

I would not have used the words "... shoot you in the face." To do so would suggest you were armed and now the prospective adversary is forewarned. You may have lost the advantage should the situation escalate.

[nils]

Doug, you did the right thing...I have a real problem with homeless people walking up to you and getting aggressive and pushy with you...I had a guy walk up in between my car and the one parked next to me at a mall...he started talking about needing to get home..blah, blah, blah...and I responded that I didn't have any change. He then raises his voice screaming "I didn't even ask you for change you blank, blank, blank" etc....He continues to walk towards me as he says these insults, and I place my hand on my defender over my shirt...I tell him "Back away now, or you'll regret this". He looks down at my hand, and quickly turns around, muttering something or other. I didn't threaten him per se, but I made it very clear that I wasn't to be messed with...I was not a victim. I'm not sure if I crossed a line by touching my weapon, but I seriously thought about pulling it if he would've kept advancing. I'll take my chance in court for shooting an approaching BG who didn't respond to my warning to step back. This is just my opinion, and I'm probably wrong...but that's the way that feel. Good luck everyone....it's getting nasty out there.

[lonewolf]

I think you did just fine. You de-escalated without violence when the other person was escalating in tone and manner. You reacted appropriately. No threat of physical violence, just the allusion that he would regret his actions if he continued. He was close enough to be a serious threat and you reacted appropriately. My only question would be, how did he get that close in the first place? Had I seen him, I probably would have found a different parking spot, but you may not have seen him soon enough, or realized his intentions.

Second guessing (hindsight) is always 20/20, they say. Again, I think you reacted entirely appropriately.

[dihappy]

I am not sure how some of you fellers think you can determine the level of the threat when approached aggressively by a stranger in a parking lot. I have been approached by bums all over the country and I can say that I am quite mean and nasty at them. How dare they think they have some kind of right to approach me or my family begging for anything. Personally, I have nothing but contempt for a person who is healthy enough to hang around parking lots begging but not healthy enough to get a job at the grocery store bagging groceries. They are dangerous in my opinion. They are about one step away from just stealing what they want.

I have issued every conceivable threat known to these blights on the community. My first words are always..."Get Away From Me". They have about a tenth of a second to start moving the other direction before I begin to move aggressively at them. The next warning is always more aggressive than the first and usually includes one or more of the following... "or I will beat the tar out of you", "or I will break your neck", or "I will run over you with my truck", "or I will knock you out with this (insert what ever I am holding that can knock a person out), "or you won't have to worry about eating anymore". Admittedly, I have never said "or I will shoot you in the face"...LOL...I love this one and may use it myself one day, but the single most relevant reason I never say "or I will shoot you" is because I like my gun defense to be a surprise and don't want to let them know I have it until I say "stop or I will reload".

I am kidding around just a little here, just a little cause I have said some of these things when approached in public by strangers, but I feel bums and vagabonds deserve to be treated like rodents. These folks are typically desperate and this makes them somewhat dangerous. You folks that say the poster was wrong to get aggressive may very well find yourselves at an extreme disadvantage in a mugging some day. Many muggings start out as an approach asking for cigarettes, food, quarters, change...what ever. Why allow them to get close enough to do damage? This risk may be OK for you. For me......I will continue to get mid-evil on any stranger approaching me in public.

You want to do something Christian? Tell them to get a job. Rewarding the bum behavior only encourages it to continue.

Completely disagree. Just because you choose to try and "De-escalate" the situation does not mean you are not prepared to "escalate" it if things dont work out.

People who are not in full control of their mental faculties will not react to a threat like a normal person would, its my opinion and many others whos books ive read, that you should do your best not to escalate a situation with threats, rude language, etc.

Believe me, the times i have "de-escalated" the two situations ive been in, i was more than ready to "go" if i had to.

[03Lightningrocks]

I am not sure how some of you fellers think you can determine the level of the threat when approached aggressively by a stranger in a parking lot. I have been approached by bums all over the country and I can say that I am quite mean and nasty at them. How dare they think they have some kind of right to approach me or my family begging for anything. Personally, I have nothing but contempt for a person who is healthy enough to hang around parking lots begging but not healthy enough to get a job at the grocery store bagging groceries. They are dangerous in my opinion. They are about one step away from just stealing what they want.

I have issued every conceivable threat known to these blights on the community. My first words are always..."Get Away From Me". They have about a tenth of a second to start moving the other direction before I begin to move aggressively at them. The next warning is always more aggressive than the first and usually includes one or more of the following... "or I will beat the tar out of you", "or I will break your neck", or "I will run over you with my truck", "or I will knock you out with this (insert what ever I am holding that can knock a person out), "or you won't have to worry about eating anymore". Admittedly, I have never said "or I will shoot you in the face"...LOL...I love this one and may use it myself one day, but the single most relevant reason I never say "or I will shoot you" is because I like my gun defense to be a surprise and don't want to let them know I have it until I say "stop or I will reload".

I am kidding around just a little here, just a little cause I have said some of these things when approached in public by strangers, but I feel bums and vagabonds deserve to be treated like rodents. These folks are typically desperate and this makes them somewhat dangerous. You folks that say the poster was wrong to get aggressive may very well find yourselves at an extreme disadvantage in a mugging some day. Many muggings start out as an approach asking for cigarettes, food, quarters, change...what ever. Why allow them to get close enough to do damage? This risk may be OK for you. For me......I will continue to get mid-evil on any stranger approaching me in public.

You want to do something Christian? Tell them to get a job. Rewarding the bum behavior only encourages it to continue.

Completely disagree. Just because you choose to try and "De-escalate" the situation does not mean you are not prepared to "escalate" it if things dont work out.

People who are not in full control of their mental faculties will not react to a threat like a normal person would, its my opinion and many others whos books ive read, that you should do your best not to escalate a situation with threats, rude language, etc.

Believe me, the times i have "de-escalated" the two situations ive been in, i was more than ready to "go" if i had to.

And I completely disagree with you. MY many experiences with bums and possible muggers sizing me up says different. I have yet to see a bum or beggar respond to kind gentle requests. Typically it encourages negotiations while they size you up. Not every bum or beggar hangs around for a second or third "get away". Matter of fact...most move along rather quickly with a simple go away...I can't help you or an I'm not interested in what ever your offering. The ones who persist are the very ones you better worry about.

My technique no more encourages an escalation than a woman encourages rape for wearing sexy cloths. If a BG has bad intentions, being a kinder gentler guy is not going to change his mind. Being unapproachable serves to keep the distance at a level I can deal with. I won't be kind and polite while I allow them to walk up on me.

[Purplehood]

I noticed one of those guys with a squee-gee and a bottle of glass cleaning fluid at a local intersection this past weekend. Hadn't seen that in years. In any event it brought back fond memories of how to handle that when they approach.
Roll down the window, lean out and yell, "Don't touch my car with that"! Smile, and move on.

[Photoman]

Let him take the cart. Call the police and have him arrested. Go home and be thankful you didn't have to shoot someone in the face.

[TexasFlash]

Let him take the cart. Call the police and have him arrested. Go home and be thankful you didn't have to shoot someone in the face.

.....maybe throw in the wallet, also? Where is the line in the sand? From what I see, problem was solved, OP did everything else you mentioned..called police, didn't have to shoot someone, made it home ok...and in the process, stood his ground and educated, at least temporarily, a potential BG.
IMHO,
Dave

[Purplehood]

[dihappy]

And I completely disagree with you. MY many experiences with bums and possible muggers sizing me up says different. I have yet to see a bum or beggar respond to kind gentle requests. Typically it encourages negotiations while they size you up. Not every bum or beggar hangs around for a second or third "get away". Matter of fact...most move along rather quickly with a simple go away...I can't help you or an I'm not interested in what ever your offering. The ones who persist are the very ones you better worry about.

My technique no more encourages an escalation than a woman encourages rape for wearing sexy cloths. If a BG has bad intentions, being a kinder gentler guy is not going to change his mind. Being unapproachable serves to keep the distance at a level I can deal with. I won't be kind and polite while I allow them to walk up on me.

Well thats too bad, i have in fact dealt with bums by being kind, maybe im just special. i grew up in San Antonio's east side and i have dealt with homeless and thug types since i moved out of there at the age of 21.

I never had to be rude (technically) to any of the idiots who harassed me.

The only time things didnt go my way was when the drunk who didnt understand "sorry i cant help you sir", grabbed my shoulder as i was walking away, after which i turned and popped him in the face with my fist.

Guess we just have different people skills :)