Under 21 - No Reciprocity

[KFP]

It seems to me that the requirements in place to get your CHL in Texas are more strict than a lot of other states, yet we lose reciprocity because we trust members (under 21) of the military with guns .

In my simple minded world, the NRA or TSRA would communicate with like-minded legislators in states that don't recognize those under 21, and have them introduce a line stating that only those 21 and over can carry in their state. The problem that we face is that the issue is not important to people within the state, because they don't have problems, resulting in no interest from lawmakers (assuming that they listen).

This seems like such a simple thing to pass in each instance, and would be a huge help to all of us. It also wouldn't require the US Senate to pretend to support it like they did a few weeks ago - meaning real results.

I'll be trying to figure out what states seem to deny reciprocity based upon our age issue and appropriate legislators to contact. Any thoughts on the best way to approach this?

[seamusTX]

You are correct in seeing that officials in other states have little to nothing to gain from giving reciprocity to Texas CHL holders.

The argument that some Texans might not visit their state is weak, as fewer than half a million Texans have a CHL to begin with, and most of those will not curtail their travel because they can't carry in another state.

Getting legislation passed is not easy. If you follow the Texas legislative session, you can see that only about 10% of bills that are introduced become law. Other states are about the same.

That said, each state has a committee in each house of the legislature (except Kansas, which has a unicameral legislature) that is responsible for legislation concerning concealed-carry licenses or permits. I think those chairmen would be the first points of contact. If they are not agreeable, you can forget about it.

Then there are about 15 states that are not going to grant reciprocity to anybody in the foreseeable future.

- Jim

[Keith B]

It would be nice, but the biggest issue is not necessarily the interest of those in other states. It is more a factor of time, effort and ultimately the cost involved in changing a statute. It requires a lot more than adding a simple line to the statute due to legal description, legal reviews, making the amendment then getting it printed. It would be easier to do during an annual or biannual revision of the statutes when other laws are being revised, but most states will not want to spend time on that trivial (to them) an issue when they have bigger fish to fry on other revisions.

[Shorts]

WAs RCWs require a person be 21 at the time of CWP application. WA denies TX reciprocity based on age. I believe their concern is under 21 out of state military with permits.

[FlynJay]

I wonder how many Texas residents under the age of 21 have permits. Are we limiting our reciprocity for just a handful of people or is there significant numbers there? We should find out if those states that are not granting because of age will if we removed the 21 age exception. Maybe get something prepared for the 2011 legislative session.

[seamusTX]

The last I heard, fewer than 50 people under age 21 had Texas CHLs. The information is on the DPS web site.

- Jim

[11BInfantry]

I have no idea what the number of people under 21 with their CHL is but I have yet to meet anyone who has one besides myself. Very small percentile

[The Annoyed Man]

WAs RCWs require a person be 21 at the time of CWP application. WA denies TX reciprocity based on age. I believe their concern is under 21 out of state military with permits.

And yet, young Texans under the age of 21 are in the military, willing to lay down their lives for the freedoms of people in Washington...

[TexasFlash]

I wonder how many Texas residents under the age of 21 have permits. Are we limiting our reciprocity for just a handful of people or is there significant numbers there? We should find out if those states that are not granting because of age will if we removed the 21 age exception. Maybe get something prepared for the 2011 legislative session.

My strictly personal opinion:
I prefer limited reciprocity w/states who don't trust "underage Military" than the alternative, which would be to deny Texas' "underage Military" their 2A rights. The problem is with other states, not ours, thank God.

[11BInfantry]

^^^ Thank you Gentlemen

[Shorts]

WAs RCWs require a person be 21 at the time of CWP application. WA denies TX reciprocity based on age. I believe their concern is under 21 out of state military with permits.

And yet, young Texans under the age of 21 are in the military, willing to lay down their lives for the freedoms of people in Washington...

Yeah. Don't kill the messenger. It's not my policy. Its not my RCW. Its not my state. Take that complaint up with them. I just know because WA was our first "married" station outside of Texas after DHs flight school.


Shall I tell you about the drinking/alcoholic beverage policies while stationed overseas?

[Charles L. Cotton]

This is purely a policy decision by Texas and other states. I don't have a figure for the total number of CHL's under the age of 21, as the demographics published by DPS is on an annual basis; i.e. what did they issue and deny for that year. Plus, DPS only publishes this information for three years - 2006 - 2008.

I also don't recall when the age limit was reduced to 18 for active military, but if it was as early as 2003 (I don't believe it was) then I estimate the total CHL's under age 21 to be 170. This number is based upon actual CHL's issued in 2006 (19), 2007 (47) and 2008 (36) used collectively to get an average of 34 per year and adding twice that number (for 2005 and 2004) to the 2006-2008 total of 102 to get 170.

This is hardly an accurate calculation but I think it's a reasonable way to show that the number of CHL's under age 21 is minuscule. Compare this to 350,000 CHLs losing reciprocity with some states and not being able to protect themselves and their families when traveling. I understand the principle involved in supporting our under age 21 military personnel and I don't disagree with it. I also understand that Mr. and Mrs. Smith want to be able to protect themselves and their children when they travel to another state. As I said, this is a policy decision but policy should not be made without considering the impact on other equally innocent and valuable lives. It is one thing to say "I will make the sacrifice" for my principles, but it's quite another thing to say "I'll sacrifice the lives and safety of someone else."

There is no easy answer to this issue.

Chas.

[The Annoyed Man]

Yeah. Don't kill the messenger. It's not my policy. Its not my RCW. Its not my state.

I'm not blaming you, shorts, and I apologize if that is how you took it. I just think the policy is kinda stupid... ...but that's just me.

There is no easy answer to this issue.

Sadly, there isn't. I know what I think it should be, but I'm enough of a realist to understand that ranting against the laws of states with more restrictive policies is pretty much useless. I don't vote there.

[Shorts]

I'm not blaming you, shorts, and I apologize if that is how you took it. I just think the policy is kinda stupid... ...but that's just me.

Oh no, I understand that, no worries. My husband's reply to what I said would be the same as yours and since I hear that method all the time this has become my way to handle the conversation

"I didn't come up with it! Don't holler at me!"

[Liberty]

I wonder how many Texas residents under the age of 21 have permits. Are we limiting our reciprocity for just a handful of people or is there significant numbers there? We should find out if those states that are not granting because of age will if we removed the 21 age exception. Maybe get something prepared for the 2011 legislative session.

I am not willing to throw veterans or Military folks under the bus, just so I can carry in a couple extra states.

It just wouldn't be right/