??? on 51 sign???

[brian704]

my wife and i went to fast eddies to shot pool. I do not drink, but i still left my gun in the truck. As i was walking up i was looking on all the windows and doors and there is no sign. I get in and on the podium on the bottom left there was the 51 sign....

i thought the sign should be on the door before you walk in? or was it being way down there ok?


i figured it had the sign that is why i did not even bring it in.

thanks

[dicion]

It is supposed to be, however, at this time, it not being there doesn't mean anything. The location can be fined/disciplined by the TABC for improper display, but that is about it.

If it is a 51% location, sign or no sign, it is illegal to carry there.

Starting September 1st, the law changes. If it is not properly displayed at all entrances, it is a defense to prosecution that you were not informed.
This means you will most likely still be arrested, still be charged, however, you will get off if you can prove it was not properly displayed.

I highly encourage you call and report the location for improper sign location to the TABC. They are generally very friendly, very open to complaints, and follow up on them seriously.
(One of the few government agencies that I have enjoyed speaking to the few times I have!)
Doing so will hopefully encourage businesses to properly display the signs required by their license.

[brian704]

i got a good friend in the TABC i will let him know. i know it was a 51 percent place but still thought it should of been there. thanks for the info

[flb_78]

I have never seen a 51% sign on the door of a place. It's always somewhere around the main bar.

Maybe Steve will chime in and explain the law all proper like for us.

[dicion]

I have never seen a 51% sign on the door of a place. It's always somewhere around the main bar.

Maybe Steve will chime in and explain the law all proper like for us.

No need for Steve, I've got it

GC s411.204. NOTICE REQUIRED ON CERTAIN PREMISES.
(a) A business that has a permit or license issued under Chapter
25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic Beverage Code, and that derives 51
percent or more of its income from the sale of alcoholic beverages for
on-premises consumption as determined by the Texas Alcoholic
Beverage Commission under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage
Code, shall prominently display at each entrance to the business
premises a sign that complies with the requirements of Subsection (c).

(c) The sign required under Subsections (a) and (b) must give
notice in both English and Spanish that it is unlawful for a person
licensed under this subchapter to carry a handgun on the premises.
The sign must appear in contrasting colors with block letters at least
one inch in height and must include on its face the number "51" printed
in solid red at least five inches in height. The sign shall be displayed in
a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public.

And remember, a 'premises' is a building, or portion of a building.
Even if a Restaurant/Bar combo were licensed separately from each other, the entrance into the bar section, from the restaurant section, would need to be posted with this sign.

[brian704]

i dont think this sign is legal then. It was a small sign and not posted in spanish. there was nothing is spanish around it.
so by that it does not have to be on the door but around the bar it self?

[dicion]

The Actual sign itself doesn't mean anything to CHLers right now.

The fact that it is a 51% establishment makes carry illegal. Sign or not.

If they don't properly post signage, it can result in a fine for them, that is it. It does not allow you to carry, like a non-posted 30.06 does.

If you aren't sure if a location is 51% or not, ask to see their Liquor License (It has to be publically inspectable, by law. Most places keep it behind glass for easy observation)
If it says:

Sign = RED
-Means it IS a 51% Location, and Carry is ILLEGAL

Sign = BLUE
-Means is it NOT a 51% location, and carry is legal.

Once again, the Sign means absolutely nothing right now for prosecution purposes.
Lots of places that are 51% locations forget to post them, or hide them.
Lots of places that are NOT 51% locations post them anyways to try to keep out handguns.

The only way to know for sure is to look at their license.

[3dfxMM]

As far as the correct signage goes, I believe the code that was quoted is the new law that goes into effect in September? I don't think there are any current requirements regarding size of letters nor use of both English and Spanish.

[aardwolf]

I don't think there are any current requirements regarding size of letters nor use of both English and Spanish.

Only for 30.06 postings. Not for prosecuting carry at 51% bars, schools, professional sports, etc.

[brian704]

cool i knew it was a 51 percent place. i never even bothered to carry it in. but i did not know they did not have to even post the sign. thanks for the info. that is why i really dont bother to go into places like these to start off with. but the wife really wanted to go shot pool.....

I beat her all 10 times hah

[dicion]

As far as the correct signage goes, I believe the code that was quoted is the new law that goes into effect in September? I don't think there are any current requirements regarding size of letters nor use of both English and Spanish.

Negative. That is the current law, in effect right now.

[Ace_Inthe_O]

So with the new law (Sep 1st) we would be LEGAL to carry if the 51% sign was improperly posted?

[dicion]

So with the new law (Sep 1st) we would be LEGAL to carry if the 51% sign was improperly posted?

... depends on how you interpret it.

Like I said, if, for some reason, an officer finds out you have a Concealed Handgun at a location, chances are you would still get arrested, and go to jail, at least for one night, while the DA assessed the charges. If it was a DA who knew the new laws, they might not prosecute. You still may go to trial, but you'd have a solid defense at trial if you can prove they were not properly posted.

[3dfxMM]

As far as the correct signage goes, I believe the code that was quoted is the new law that goes into effect in September? I don't think there are any current requirements regarding size of letters nor use of both English and Spanish.

Negative. That is the current law, in effect right now.

Interesting. I have never seen a 51% at an entrance to a bar. They have always been near the bar itself. I can't recall if the ones I have seen were in both languages or not. I thought that both of those requirements were part of the new law. Like most of you, it hasn't ever really mattered to me since it is usually easy to tell when a place is off-limits and it didn't matter if the sign was there or not anyway.