Own House -> Own Gun

[Justice]

I've posted on this forum a long time ago. I am a legal resident, and am in the process of getting my temp green card renewed for a regular 10 year green card. After that it's only a year or so away to apply for full blown citizenship. I am going to vote in the next presidential elections, that's for sure!. I've already learned that I am eligible for CHL (unless stuff has changed), but have had no reason to do it yet. It's because the house I was living in for the past couple of years is not my own, and the house owner does not want guns in the house.

Now we are buying our own house, and I noticed something when we walked trough the house for inspections. Someone had forced the side door to the garage with a crowbar. The house is in danger of foreclosure, so I am quite sure the bank has possession of the keys. I think it could have been the previous owners coming back to get some of their possessions they left behind. There is still a tonne of stuff back there, including some dishes in the dishwasher and a gas mower + weed whacker. It could also have been some baddies, that noticed the house was inhabited, and checked if there was something left worth to steal.

My wife is very adverse to gun ownership, because of the accidents that happen to gun owners. Especially when kids are involved. Now I got her far enough so I can buy a gun and keep it in the house for as long as we do not have kids. I am hoping it will give her a sense of security, and she will grow accustomed to having a gun in the house. I am determined about getting one as soon as we move in there, but would like some input on where I could go to purchase, and what hoops I got to jump trough to obtain a handgun. I've read about wait times and such. I live in Plano, so I'd also like to get pointers to a good shop that is not too adverse to pave the way for a new costumer. I am already quite sure I want to pick up a Glock 17, as this was the sidearm I've been trained with when I was in the Dutch Military Police training. I am also wondering where people keep their guns when children are concerned, and in general.

[ClarkLZeuss]

Hi Justice. Someone else can answer about the legalities of purchasing as a Green Card holder, but in Texas, there are no wait periods for gun purchases.

As for your wife feeling uncomfortable with guns, that is a very normal reaction. A lot of guys that post on here have wives that feel exactly the same way. What a lot of us found helps is if you assure them of safe handling practices. I would suggest this at the very least means a gun safe, and that you adopt a very strict rule: a handgun will only be found one of two places: 1) On my hip, or 2) In the safe. Resist the temptation to just "hide" it somewhere. Hidden guns always get found. May I suggest a GunVault type safe? They're strong and secure, but open very quickly. Plus, you can mount them just about anywhere. It's what I use and I've really liked it. I also keep the safe out of reach of my 2-year-old, but something you will discover is that when kids start learning about chairs and stools, nothing is really out of their reach. That's why it has to be locked up. And the reason I use a GunVault is that I didn't want just a lockbox since the key to it could be lost or snatched up by one of my kids.

It also helps to put the number of accidents caused by guns in perspective with the number of accidents caused by drowning, choking, etc. Although it's very tragic when a child is killed accidentally by a gun, these incidents are dwarfed by the number of kids that die in bathtubs, plus gun accidents are just as preventable as other kinds of accidents. Someone else might know the exact numbers.

My 2 cents.

[texasnative]

Justice

A good shop suggestion for Plano is the Bullet Trap at 2608 Avenue K. It is on the East side between Park and Parker. Informed staff, good selection of handguns and a range.

http://www.bullettrapinc.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Good Luck.

[Crossfire]

Justice - when you buy that first handgun, inquire about basic pistol classes in your area. You need to introduce your wife to firearm safety and fundamentals so that she will be more comfortable with having a firearm in the house.

[Justice]

ClarkLZeuss -> A gun safe that opens quickly is one of the first things that I buy just because I don't like the prospect of it getting in any hands but mine.

texasnative -> I was actually looking for a place to shoot too, so that might work out. I'll have to pay them a visit sometime.

Crossfire -> I am going to show her how to work it, and then maybe get her to do a class. I asked her to go to a range once I have the gun, but she wants nothing to do with it. I blame her mom for her adversity, her dad at one point wanted to own a gun too, but her mom "shot" that down.

[The Annoyed Man]

ClarkLZeuss -> A gun safe that opens quickly is one of the first things that I buy just because I don't like the prospect of it getting in any hands but mine.

texasnative -> I was actually looking for a place to shoot too, so that might work out. I'll have to pay them a visit sometime.

Crossfire -> I am going to show her how to work it, and then maybe get her to do a class. I asked her to go to a range once I have the gun, but she wants nothing to do with it. I blame her mom for her adversity, her dad at one point wanted to own a gun too, but her mom "shot" that down.

BTW, you should know that Crossfire and her husband teach both Basic Handgun Safety and CHL classes, and they are very popular with the ladies. My wife took her BHS class from Crossfire's husband, and her CHL class from Crossfire, and it was a positive experience all the way around.

[Carrots]

As a non US citizen green card holder you may get a "pending" status from NICS rather than a straight "proceed" when the FFL calls to do a background check (if you buy from a FFL that is). I bought three this way, and whilst it was OK I got a 'pending' each time and the 2/3 day wait before you are cleared for pick up did become a nuisance. No such problem with a CHL as no call is required and so I'm happy to have left that inconvenience in the past.

Otherwise you should be good to go (utility bills, driving licence & green card I think is what I used to use).

However you *may* need to wait until 90 days after the new effective date on your new green card, I did but then the circumstances were not exactly the same. In my case I discovered that when a 'new resident' is issued a 'new' green card their residency clock is set back to zero, and with state law being what it is with regards to basic eligibility and proving residency viz. the 90 day rule I was snookered. I could prove that I had been in state for over the required timeframe with my utility bills but the fact that according to my GC i was fresh off the boat meant that I had to start over. You *may* also need to wait to get three months 'back on the board' before being allowed to buy a gun. I don't know for sure if this is the case just for 'new' green cards for ''new' residents or for all new green cards issued.

Unfortunately I only found this out after I had paid for my first pistol, waited for it to arrive, got all excited and then turned up at my FFL and got a big fat NICS "DENIAL". Being an upstanding pillar of the community (who thought that he had done his homework and had his paperwork in order) I did some checking and with some help from folks from this board it became clear what the issue was and that I just needed to wait out the 90 day and try again. It would have been nice for this little peach of a caveat to have been noted somewhere officially, but I waited my time and collected the gun in the end. Two months after I had finally been given the all clear to collect and had done so (of course on my second trip after my 90 days I got a 3 day pending period) NICS sent me a letter telling me that I was good to go (there is nothing like efficient bureaucracies eh). By that time I was on to pistol number two.

Of course you can avoid this by buying FTF or just buying your gun from either a gun show or a gun shop - I tried to be smooth & to deal savvy and so I bought online which was great until I actually tried to pick it up and then found that I had paid for a gun that I couldn't have for a full three months. By buying 'in stock' & 'onsite' you would be able check out the situation and see what NICS say without having any money on the line, or maybe even no NICS to worry about. The good news is that once you get your first proceed you sleep a little better at night. Oh and don't expect any help from NICS if you do initially get denied, do some research elsewhere. They have a secret squirrel policy which makes it practically impossible to get things straightened out with them in any sort of sensible way and they flat out refuse to tell you what the problem is unless you start the neverending appeals process with them.

All of this said having a spot of personal home security is worth the hassle, and I wish you luck with your quest. My wife also 'hates guns' and so you are not alone with that one, but fortunately I wear the trousers in my house (and so far they have not been cut into shreds!)

[ELB]

Hi Justice,

It appears you've been in the US for awhile, but since I am just now aware of it -- welcome! Since you said you were in the Dutch Military Police, I am guessing you are originally from the Netherlands. I spent a lot of time in the Netherlands when I was stationed at NATO Airbase Geilenkirchen on the western German border (right across from Brunssum), and I really enjoyed it. Welcome to the US and welcome to Texas.

As to your wife -- hmmm. I regard fear of guns (as opposed to respect for what it can do) as a bit irrational, and it is hard to logically convince someone whose position is not based fully on logic. That being said, I think slow and steady (and safe) exposure is primarily the best route.

This is a good rule:

I would suggest this at the very least means a gun safe, and that you adopt a very strict rule: a handgun will only be found one of two places: 1) On my hip, or 2) In the safe.

I have a GunVault also, and think it is a good solution.

The best thing you can do for yourself and for her is to get some quality training , not only for "shooting" but on administrative handling -- loading, unloading, holstering, drawing from the holster, and so on. I know you were in the military -- as was I -- but I have found a number of civilian trainers and courses that far exceed my military training.

Best wishes to you, hope your green card and citizenship applications go smoothly.

[Fangs]

Of course you can avoid this by buying FTF or just buying your gun from either a gun show or a gun shop

Something to consider, Cabela's required 3 months worth of utility / credit card bills for me to purchase my Remington 870 shotgun because I have a green card. Even though I had my CHL. Keep in mind, this could be an issue if you just moved and changed your address from previous bills.

I had no such problems at the gun show in San Antonio, even though I bought from a vendor. My last FTF purchase was the least painful of all, taking all of 2 minutes.

[Carrots]

Of course you can avoid this by buying FTF or just buying your gun from either a gun show or a gun shop

Something to consider, Cabela's required 3 months worth of utility / credit card bills for me to purchase my Remington 870 shotgun because I have a green card. Even though I had my CHL. Keep in mind, this could be an issue if you just moved and changed your address from previous bills.

I had no such problems at the gun show in San Antonio, even though I bought from a vendor. My last FTF purchase was the least painful of all, taking all of 2 minutes.

Sounds to me like the staff at Cabela's need a refresher on the law. Personally I would buy elsewhere if my CHL was not good enough to stand by itself in their store, I am THROUGH with carting the equivalent of a small forest with me when I go shopping. Isn't the CHL supposed to be a one stop shop? Why would they even ask about whether or not you had a GC? Sounds odd to me, but then this is coming from someone who has had to jump through so many bureaucratic hoops over the last 12 months that I have become rather jaded with regards to the rulebook. Just as well that it has thus far been worth it eh. Anyway 'm not ranting at you Mr. Fangs, and the headsup is not unappreciated.

[B3XD]

The NRA has a lot of good programs that answer some of your wife's concerns. Get a good gun safe. Then, I think if you can show her that there are consistent, well thought out program for Basic gun ownership, Protection in the Home, and children's safety through Eddy Eagle programs that it will reduce her concerns. A lot of women worry that the gun thing is a male posturing issue not a real safety issue. ( yes, I am a woman, a wife, and a mother. I have heard and wondered about these issues before)

The courses may never alleviate her worries but they may make her balance her fears about how gun ownership affects her and her childern with her fears about her and her children's safety from threat.

[T3hK1w1]

A lot of good advice in this thread, and you seem to be aware of most of it already as well.
+1 on the gun safe
+1 on getting a proven gun that you are familiar with
+5 on getting the wife comfortable with the idea of having a firearm in the house, and on getting her to a class about it. Conflict w/family members seems to be a reoccuring theme with gun ownership, and I personally think that some timely discussion and education is the best answer to it. Don't try to do it all by your lonesome though, give Crossfire a call-I've heard good things about her.
Last but definitely not least, refer your wife to http://www.corneredcat.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. For that matter, you ought to go over there and read it yourself.

[ghostrider]

>Why would they even ask about whether or not you had a GC?

Current 4473 forms ask if you are a citizen or not. Non-citizens are required to provide an Alien Registration number. Documentation of 90days of continuous residency is a federal requirement:

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


(B13) May aliens legally in the United States buy firearms?[Back]

An alien legally in the U.S. may acquire firearms if he has a State of residence. An alien has a State of residence only if he is residing in that State and has resided in a State continuously for at least 90 days prior to the purchase. An alien acquiring firearms from a licensee is required to prove both his identity, by presenting a government-issued photo identification, and his residency with substantiating documentation showing that he has resided in the State continuously for the 90-day period prior to the purchase. Examples of qualifying documentation to prove residency include: utility bills, lease agreements, credit card statements, and pay stubs from the purchaser’s place of employment, if such documents include residential addresses.

See also Item 5, “Sales to Aliens in the United States,” in the General Information section of this publication.

[18 U.S.C. 921, 922(b)(3), (d) and (g), 27 CFR 478.11 and 478.99(a)]

(R7) I have a "green card" and have lived in Texas for several years. Am I prohibited from purchasing firearms and ammunition from an FFL in Texas?

As long as you are not otherwise prohibited from purchasing or possessing firearms and ammunition (for example, a felon), Federal law does not prohibit you from purchasing or possessing firearms or ammunition. However, you will need to put your alien number or admission number on the Form 4473 and provide the FFL with documentation establishing you have resided in Texas for more than 90 consecutive days preceding the transaction. Moreover, you must make sure there are no State or local restrictions on such a purchase.

[Justice]

I am actually having my Biometrics taken tomorrow for my new green card, but the actual plastic is going to take forever if I have to believe all the stories that are out there. There is also the chance me and my wife will be hauled in for an interview to see if I am not using her to escape my "third world country" which would be a PITA. But then again, everything is a PITA when the government and you are concerned, so what's new?

Thanks for all the replies. And I also appreciate the comments about first hand experiences from all you green card holders! I guess I am currently in the limbo position. I guess I could still go to bullettrap when I move in to my new place and see what happens if I try to purchase a gun, if it goes trough than I got no problems, if it isn't then oh well. Guess I'll have to ask my wife for a Glock 17 for my 28th birthday coming July 12th.

[Carrots]

ghostrider is of course correct. I completely forgot about the 4473 and the section it has for ones alien ID. In my defence I have been using one FFL who no longer asks to see everything every time but nevertheless my apologies for the oversight

Oh and Justice it sounds like we are in the same boat, although I'm on probation until June 2010 and I will then be going from Conditional PR to Full PR (unless my dearest wife decides to deport me beforehand). I'm actually not expecting an interview, just a $550 cheque (or check as these American folks like to write) and a little more patience. It only took three months from filing the I-485 to receipt of my inital GC and so touch wood getting the proper one won't be so bad for me next year. Anyway It is all a bit of a game as you will no doubt know yourself, but so far it has been worth it to me. Let us know how it goes with the pistol purchase and let me know how painful/painless the transition turns out to be!