Prior to Having License in Hand....

[dimbulb]

Ok, so i just got the "App Completed - license issued or certificate active" label listed on the DPS site for my CHL. Does this mean that If I get stopped for a traffic violation or asked by any other officer to show identification that I need to fully disclose that I have a CHL? I dont have the plastic yet, but the site does say "license issued/cert active". Does this mean that dispatchers will alert the officer that I am CHL even before I have my plastic? Should I disclose that info prior to receiving the license? It probably isnt a big deal because the license should be here in days (hopefully), but does it raise a significant concern? Anyone ever come across this?

[KC5AV]

I'd say just drive carefully. Unless you're used to getting stopped on a regular basis, it's a non-issue. If you happen to get stopped, just tell the officer that when he runs your license, he'll see a CHL, but that you haven't received it yet.

[Abraham]

This sounds like a troubling gap in the process - one that could cause problems if encountering an over eager LEO...

Driving on "egg shells" so to speak sounds reasonable if you don't mind having to do something you shouldn't have to do because the system has a crack in it. Certainly there's no assurance the officer 'has' to take your word that the CHL is in the mail...

[y5e06]

doesn't seem like a big deal that warrants any strange behavior.
If you don't have the plastic you shouldn't be CC'ing (non-vehicle situation). If they ask for ID and you aren't CC'ing then you don't have to disclose your license. If they ask about the license just mention you submitted your packet and haven't recieved it yet. You're not carrying, so no big deal.
If you're in your vehicle. have it hidden. The MPA allows you to keep in vehicle regardless of CHL or not. if asked, same thing. You submitted but don't have the license and such-n-such piece is in location x of the vehicle.

[jimlongley]

When I got my original CHL I hadn't checked the status when I was on my way home from a telecom upgrade that we did after 10pm. It was about 2am as I approached my exit on 75 in Plano, and I noticed a bunch of cars sitting in the grass with their lights off, and flashing blue and red farther down the road, which made my old rescue squad instincts start to kick in, I thought there might have been a big wreck, so I moved to a higher state of awareness.

As I pulled off onto the exit ramp, I saw one of the cars in the grass start up and fall in behind me, so it became obvious that it was a drunk sweep and I kind of relaxed, I had nothing to worry about.

I was a little dismayed when the car behind me lit me up, but I pulled over safely and did all the right things.

This young officer walked up to my driver's side and asked for the usual, but stuck his head almost all the way in the car trying to smell my breath. He went back to his car and then came back and asked if I was "packing."

Now I was scheduled to go out of town the next morning and that was on my mind, so my first thought was to wonder how he knew that I hadn't packed my clothes yet, but he finally made it clear that he wanted to know if I had a gun with me.

I told him no, that I did not have a CHL, and he told me that according to their records I did.

The plastic arrived in the mail the next day.

I got a warning for a license plate light out.

[USA1]

The MPA allows you to keep in vehicle regardless of CHL or not.
i wonder if you get stopped while carrying a in a car without a chl, and the officer asks if you have any weapons in the vehicle and you tell him yes. i know this is not illegal, but what is the overall feeling by LEO's? i personally dont get stopped often, but when i have, i've never been asked that question.i have heard they might take you in, even though any charges may be dropped.

[Sangiovese]

When I got my original CHL I hadn't checked the status when I was on my way home from a telecom upgrade that we did after 10pm. It was about 2am as I approached my exit on 75 in Plano, and I noticed a bunch of cars sitting in the grass with their lights off, and flashing blue and red farther down the road, which made my old rescue squad instincts start to kick in, I thought there might have been a big wreck, so I moved to a higher state of awareness.

As I pulled off onto the exit ramp, I saw one of the cars in the grass start up and fall in behind me, so it became obvious that it was a drunk sweep and I kind of relaxed, I had nothing to worry about.

I was a little dismayed when the car behind me lit me up, but I pulled over safely and did all the right things.

This young officer walked up to my driver's side and asked for the usual, but stuck his head almost all the way in the car trying to smell my breath. He went back to his car and then came back and asked if I was "packing."

Now I was scheduled to go out of town the next morning and that was on my mind, so my first thought was to wonder how he knew that I hadn't packed my clothes yet, but he finally made it clear that he wanted to know if I had a gun with me.

I told him no, that I did not have a CHL, and he told me that according to their records I did.

The plastic arrived in the mail the next day.

I got a warning for a license plate light out.

I had the opposite experience. Got stopped a few days after getting my plastic, handed it to the officer, he looked at it, asked me if I was packin (I was), handed it back and went to his car. Came back and asked to see my plastic again and gave it a real thorough look. I told him I had just received it and he said that must be why it wasn't showing up on his system. I got my ticket, but the handgun/license was not an issue other than a minute or two of confusion caused by it not showing on his system.

This was before the car carry bill removed the gray area... so I was concerned that it might be an issue when he said it didn't show up for him, but he didn't seem concerned.

[Budge]

I specifically joined this forum tonight to talk about this issue. Imagine my surprise to find a thread already.

I took my CHL class about six weeks ago. I checked online this past Friday, and my status was still pending. Tonight, on my way home from picking up my son from daycare, I was pulled over in Plano. The officer informed me that he pulled me over for having no front license plate. At least 20% of the cars in Plano don't have front license plates, and it's not checked during state inspection, so...well that's another story I guess.

Anyway, the officer goes back to his car to check my license. When he got back, he asked me if I had a concealed weapon in the car. I told him that I did, and I was politely asked to exit the vehicle with my hands visible. No problem. He then asks me why I didn't provide him with my CHL and inform him that I was carrying. According to his computer, I have an active license. I told him that I hadn't received the license yet, and that I didn't even know that I had been approved. He didn't care, and he informed me that he was filing a report with DPS about my "violation" and that I would have to take it up with them to clear up the matter. I was shocked. I asked him what I should have done. Don't I have the right to have a concealed weapon in my car without a license? He said the violation wasn't the weapon, it was not providing the CHL. He acknowledged that IF I was telling the truth, then there is a loophole in the system. And that's not his problem.

What am I supposed to do now? Am I going to lose my license before I ever even get it? I am so upset. I played by the rules and did everything that I was supposed to do. And now if feel like I'm being punished for it. This feels a lot more like gun registration.

[Budge]

I have a close family friend who is a Texas State Representative. I'm going to talk with her about proposing to have the Date of Issue for CHLs listed in the DPS computer system. That way, the state could mandate a 3-5 day grace period, representing a reasonable amount of time for license holders to receive their licenses.

What really gets me is that this "over eager" officer actually said "he didn't have a choice" and that he was "just doing his job". I can only hope that he put in his report that I was not carrying my weapon on my person, but that I was transporting it in my glovebox. There's a very big difference.

[Abraham]

Budge,


This is the sort of "Catch 22" that seems could be easily corrected by the powers that be - I sincerely hope your efforts to clear up the gap between the info in the system and actually receiving your CHL in hand go well - for all of us.

I have too have experienced this gap having my old CHL expiring and my new one not having arrived.

In my case I went unarmed while waiting - great, just great...

At that time the MPA had not been enacted. If you're in the gap zone (so to speak) why indeed can't the MPA take precedent with the time gap in mind?

Perhaps you could address this issue with your friend also?

[cbunt1]

This catch-22 situation is one of the reasons that TSRA is lobbying to change the "duty to notify" for CHL holders in Texas.

As it stands now, everyone (who can legally purchase a gun, etc.) can carry a concealed handgun in the car, but no duty to notify. As soon as someone obtains a CHL, the same action (whether you're carrying in the glove-box, or on your person) now has a duty to notify.

It's an equal protection issue...either anyone carrying in the car (period) should have a duty to notify, or CHL holders should be freed from the same.

I'm not sure which side of the equation I come down on, but as Mark Davis used to say "It doesn't pass my consistency test."

[Budge]

As of right now, I have to wait for a call from someone at the DPS to contact me. Apparently, the first offense gets you a 90 CHL suspension. The 2nd offense gets you a Class B Misdemeanor and revokes your CHL permanently.

If the DPS officer who contacts me doesn't waive the citation, I'm not even sure how to contest it. Is there a governing body or court where I can appeal a CHL suspension? Under no circumstances will I accept a suspension of my CHL for this without some sort of appeal process.

[Purplehood]

If I were in your shoes I would be annoyed too. But the logical side of my brain-housing-group would show whatever citation you received to a lawyer. I don't see much cause for alarm as you appear to have been within the law based on the description that you gave.
Maybe the DPS-guy was a relative nOOb.

[FlynJay]

As of right now, I have to wait for a call from someone at the DPS to contact me. Apparently, the first offense gets you a 90 CHL suspension. The 2nd offense gets you a Class B Misdemeanor and revokes your CHL permanently.

If the DPS officer who contacts me doesn't waive the citation, I'm not even sure how to contest it. Is there a governing body or court where I can appeal a CHL suspension? Under no circumstances will I accept a suspension of my CHL for this without some sort of appeal process.

There are some legal hoops that you can jump through to fight this. I would recommend you contact both of your representatives and see if they can help you get through this without a suspension of your license (this is a prime example why the leglistlation removing the duty to notify is needed).

Here is the applicable code.

GC 411. I87. SUSPENSION OF LICENSE. (a) A license may be
suspended under this section if the license holder:
(1) is charged with the commission of a Class A or Class B
misdemeanor or an offense under Section 42.01, Penal Code, or of a
felony under an information or indictment;
(2) fails to display a license as required by Section 411.205;
(3) fails to notify the department of a change of address or name
as required by Section 41 1 .I 81 ;
(4) carries a concealed handgun under the authority of this
subchapter of a different category than the license holder is licensed to
carry;
(5) fails to return a previously issued license after a license is
modified as required by Section 411.184(d);
TEXAS CONCEALED HANDGUN LAWS GC§411.188. 17
(6) commits an act of family violence and is the subject of an
active protective order rendered under Title 4, Family Code; or
(7) is arrested for an offense involving family violence or an
offense under Section 42.072, Penal Code, and is the subject of an
order for emergency protection issued under Article 17.292, Code of
Criminal Procedure.
(b) If a peace officer believes a reason listed in Subsection (a) to
suspend a license exists, the officer shall prepare an affidavit on a
form provided by the department stating the reason for the suspension
of the license and giving the department all of the information available
to the officer at the time of the preparation of the form. The officer shall
attach the officer's reports relating to the license holder to the form and
send the form and the attachments to the appropriate division of the
department at its Austin headquarters not later than the fifth working
day after the date the form is prepared. The officer shall send a copy of
the form and the attachments to the license holder. If the license
holder has not surrendered the license or the license was not seized
as evidence, the license holder shall surrender the license to the
appropriate division of the department not later than the 10th day after
the date the license holder receives the notice of suspension from the
department unless the license holder requests a hearing from the
department. The license holder may request that the justice court in
the justice court precinct in which the license holder resides review the
suspension as provided by Section 411.180. If a request is made for
the justice court to review the suspension and hold a hearing, the
license holder shall surrender the license on the date an order of
suspension is entered by the justice court.
(c) A license may be suspended under this section:
(1) for 30 days, if the person's license is subject to suspension for
a reason listed in Subsection (a)(3), (4), or (5), except as provided by
Subdivision (3);
(2) for 90 days, if the person's license is subject to suspension for
a reason listed in Subsection (a)(2), except as provided by Subdivision
(3);
(3) for not less than one year and not more than three years if the
person's license is subject to suspension for a reason listed in Subsection
(a), other than the reason listed in Subsection (a)(l), and the
person's license has been previously suspended for the same reason;
(4) until dismissal of the charges if the person's license is subject
to suspension for the reason listed in Subsection (a)(l ); or
(5) for the duration of or the period specified by:
(A) the protective order issued under Title 4, Family Code, if
the person's license is subject to suspension for the reason listed in
Subsection (a)@); or
(B) the order for emergency protection issued under Article
17.292, Code of Criminal Procedure, if the person's license is subject
to suspension for the reason listed in Subsection (a)(7).

and then look at 411.180.

GC $411 .I 80. NOTIFICATION OF DENIAL, REVOCATION, OR
SUSPENSION OF LICENSE; REVIEW. (a) The department shall
give written notice to each applicant for a handgun license of any
denial, revocation, or suspension of that license. Not later than the
30th day after the notice is received by the applicant, according to the
records of the department, the applicant or license holder may request
a hearing on the denial, revocation, or suspension. The applicant must
make a written request for a hearing addressed to the department at
its Austin address. The request for hearing must reach the department
in Austin prior to the 30th day after the date of receipt of the written
notice. On receipt of a request for hearing from a license holder or
applicant, the department shall promptly schedule a hearing in the
appropriate justice court in the county of residence of the applicant or
license holder. The justice court shall conduct a hearing to review the
denial, revocation, or suspension of the license. In a proceeding under
this section, a justice of the peace shall act as an administrative
hearing officer. A hearing under this section is not subject to Chapter
2001 (Administrative Procedure Act). A district attorney or county
attorney, the attorney general, or a designated member of the department
may represent the department.
(b) The department, on receipt of a request for hearing, shall file the
appropriate petition in the justice court selected for the hearing and
send a copy of that petition to the applicant or license holder at the
address contained in departmental records. A hearing under this
section must be scheduled within 30 days of receipt of the request for
a hearing. The hearing shall be held expeditiously but in no event
more than 60 days after the date that the applicant or license holder
requested the hearing. The date of the hearing may be reset on the
motion of either party, by agreement of the parties, or by the court as
necessary to accommodate the court's docket.
(c) The justice court shall determine if the denial, revocation, or
suspension is supported by a preponderance of the evidence. Both the
applicant or license holder and the department may present evidence.
The court shall affirm the denial, revocation, or suspension if the court
determines that denial, revocation, or suspension is supported by a
preponderance of the evidence. If the court determines that the denial,
revocation, or suspension is not supported by a preponderance of the
evidence, the court shall order the department to immediately issue or
return the license to the applicant or license holder.
(d) A proceeding under this section is subject to Chapter 105, Civil
Practice and Remedies Code, relating to fees, expenses, and
attorney's fees.
(e) A party adversely affected by the court's ruling following a
hearing under this section may appeal the ruling by filing within 30
days after the ruling a petition in a county court at law in the county in
which the applicant or license holder resides or, if there is no county
court at law in the county, in the county court of the county. A person
who appeals under this section must send by certified mail a copy of
the person's petition, certified by the clerk of the court in which the
petition is filed, to the appropriate division of the department at its
Austin headquarters. The trial on appeal shall be a trial de nova
without a jury. A district or county attorney or the attorney general may
represent the department.
(f) A suspension of a license may not be probated.
(g) If an applicant or a license holder does not petition the justice
court, a denial becomes final and a revocation or suspension takes
effect on the 30th day after receipt of written notice.
(h) The department may use and introduce into evidence certified
copies of governmental records to establish the existence of certain
events that could result in the denial, revocation, or suspension of a
license under this subchapter, including records regarding convictions,
judicial findings regarding mental competency, judicial findings
regarding chemical dependency, or other matters that may be established
by governmental records that have been properly authenticated.
(i) This section does not apply to a suspension of a license under
Section 85.022, Family Code, or Article 17.292, Code of Criminal
Procedure

Good luck