Nascar carry question?

[bigdave238]

My wife and I are going to the Nascar race tomorrow and i know i can't carry at the track. My question is can i carry my gun there and leave it in the car, in the parking lot, or are you not allowed to have it anywhere on the race track's property? Thanks for your help on this, just want to be sure.

[jorge]

I think the premises rule still applies.

"Premises" means a building or a portion of a building. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.

[bigdave238]

Does anyone know for sure on this issue i don't want any trouble but i want to carry since it is a long drive from my home to the track.

[bubba1876]

There will probably be about 70,000 guns out there in cars, campers, etc.
You won't be the only one.

[jimlongley]

There will probably be about 70,000 guns out there in cars, campers, etc.
You won't be the only one.

There's one I wonder about. What would the rule be on campers in the infield? I know that TMS had a sign posted, not 30.06 compliant, next to the tunnel entrance, in such a position that you wouldn't see it until you had been in line for a while and really couldn't obey without actually passing through the gate. So if you're carrying ANY firearm in your camper, and you have infield camping reservations, what do you do?

[Liberty]

There will probably be about 70,000 guns out there in cars, campers, etc.
You won't be the only one.

There's one I wonder about. What would the rule be on campers in the infield? I know that TMS had a sign posted, not 30.06 compliant, next to the tunnel entrance, in such a position that you wouldn't see it until you had been in line for a while and really couldn't obey without actually passing through the gate. So if you're carrying ANY firearm in your camper, and you have infield camping reservations, what do you do?

Since you asked what would we do,
I wouldn't take the gun out of he camper. I'm not sure what is legal though.

[Keith B]

Your camper would be your residence, so think it would be allowed. You can have it in your vehicle, so would you not fall under the MPA too? Just don't remove it.

Also, think Castle Doctrine would be applicable since the motor home would be your home.

[srothstein]

To answer the original poster, it is clear in the law that you can have the gun in your car. You cannot carry on your person into the stadium.

To answer the other question, 30.06 only applies when you are carrying under the authority of your CHL. In a car, you car not violating any law (MPA made it so), so you are not carrying under your CHL's authority (which would be an exception to the law), so you could have the gun in your car or home in the infield. You could not take it out of the vehicle though.

Well, that is how I read the laws anyway.

[TrueFlog]

To answer the original poster, it is clear in the law that you can have the gun in your car. You cannot carry on your person into the stadium.

To answer the other question, 30.06 only applies when you are carrying under the authority of your CHL. In a car, you car not violating any law (MPA made it so), so you are not carrying under your CHL's authority (which would be an exception to the law), so you could have the gun in your car or home in the infield. You could not take it out of the vehicle though.

Well, that is how I read the laws anyway.

30.06 and car carry is definitely a gray area. While I would like to agree with you, I'm not sure I do. By your logic, a motorist who get pulled over while carrying does not need to show his CHL since he's carrying under the MPA and not his CHL. However, I think we all agree that the motorist does have to show, so there's a contradiction. Also, from a FAQ on the DPS website http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/ftp/forms/ ... df#page=71:

Q: If I drive to a shopping mall that does not permit handguns, will I be allowed to park in the parking lot and leave my gun in the car?
A: If the parking lot is not posted with the sign above, handguns may be left in the cars. However, if the sign is posted in or at the entrance to the parking lot, you may not.

That's just a FAQ written by the DPS, so it's not the law, but it does provide insight into how a LEO might respond. In that scenario, an individual without a CHL would have the right to car carry in the lot (under MPA) but a CHL holder would lose that right (under the CHL).

Consider this example. If I (with my CHL) drive onto the parking lot at Six Flags lot with a handgun in the glove box, I'm guilty of criminal trespass. If I stop just outside of Six Flags and let my friend (without a CHL) drive onto the lot and park, we're both free and clear. (The handgun is in his possession since he's driving, so I'm good. The 30.06 doesn't apply to him, so he's OK.)

[srothstein]

Trueflog,

I understand why you might think it is a gray area, and why DPS even may have it wrong on their FAQ. But it really is not that gray.

First, the contradiction you mention is not really a contradiction. The law requiring you to show your CHL does not mention how you are carrying it, just if you have a CHL and a pistol on or about your person. Technically, this law would require you to show your CHL even if you were in your own home when the officer asked for the ID, if you were armed there.

The confusion arises over authority to carry and when what laws apply. When you read 30.06, it specifically says it only applies when you are carrying under the authority of your CHL. As a different example that shows this point, can a police officer carry his weapon into a place that is posted if he also has a CHL? Of course he can since he is not using the authority of the CHL. The MPA can act the same way. If the parking lot is properly posted, you cannot carry under the authority of your CHL, but you can still carry under any other authority you might have, such as the MPA or a peace officer license.

My question on the DPS FAQ is if they updated it since the MPA and who checked the law for them. They have been known to have some anti-gun personnel and lawyers working for them.

[TrueFlog]

Has this been addressed before on this board? If so, it may be best to move our discussion to an existing thread. Also, I appreciate your response, and I understand you're a respected member 'round these parts. However, as I have neither the time nor money to take chances in the matter, I hope you'll permit me to be a bit skeptical.

You're right that 30.06 only applies to a person carrying under the authority of his CHL- I hadn't noticed that before. That does indeed resolve the contradiction about displaying a license, so we're good there. As for the parking lot issue, how do we know which authority applies in which situation? Your assertion is that MPA supersedes the CHL while in a vehicle, right? On what are you basing that assertion - does the penal code state which one takes precedence, is there existing case law, has some other poor sap already been a test case? I'm inclined to agree (if MPA applies rather than CHL) that 30.06 and 46.035 do not apply to CHL'ers with guns in cars. That means that a visitor at TMS could indeed keep a gun in his camper, even on the infield. It would also mean that any of the NASCAR drivers could legally carry during the race with or without a CHL.

The DPS website provides no info on the date or author of the FAQ. The document as a whole is current as of Sept., 2007, but the FAQ section may or may not have been updated after the passage of MPA. A link to the FAQ can be found in the left margin at http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administra ... sindex.htm.

Now here's the payoff. When I was hired, I had to go through an orientation session during which they told us that guns were not allowed anywhere on company property, even the parking lot. Now that I have my CHL, I look back on that and consider it to be effective verbal notice under 30.06. This means that keeping a gun locked in my car in the parking lot would constitute both a violation of company policy and criminal trespass by a license holder (unless MPA applies). As such, I could not only lose my job but also my right to carry and possibly wind up with a fine and/or jail time. However, if you're correct in stating that car carry falls under MPA and not CHL, then having a gun in my car would violate company policy, but not the law. I could be fired but not prosecuted and would not lose my CHL. Am I interpreting this correctly? Thanks.

[Xander]

The DPS website provides no info on the date or author of the FAQ. The document as a whole is current as of Sept., 2007, but the FAQ section may or may not have been updated after the passage of MPA. A link to the FAQ can be found in the left margin at http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administra ... sindex.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

This specific question/answer in the FAQ has not been updated since before the passage of the MPA. I can't speak to the FAQ in it's entirety.

[srothstein]

Now here's the payoff. When I was hired, I had to go through an orientation session during which they told us that guns were not allowed anywhere on company property, even the parking lot. Now that I have my CHL, I look back on that and consider it to be effective verbal notice under 30.06. This means that keeping a gun locked in my car in the parking lot would constitute both a violation of company policy and criminal trespass by a license holder (unless MPA applies). As such, I could not only lose my job but also my right to carry and possibly wind up with a fine and/or jail time. However, if you're correct in stating that car carry falls under MPA and not CHL, then having a gun in my car would violate company policy, but not the law. I could be fired but not prosecuted and would not lose my CHL. Am I interpreting this correctly? Thanks.

You have it correct as I understand the law.

But, you are also right to be skeptical. I have my opinion and my interpretation. That would only really matter if I am the officer responding to the call. Never take legal advice off the internet, especially from non-lawyers. I would suggest not taking it from a lawyer over the internet either. You are the one at risk and the local officer and DA may have different opinions than I do. You have to make the decision for yourself on this.

You might consider asking a good lawyer in your area for his opinion. If you are going to carry, you really need to know a good lawyer to call anyway, just in case things go further downhill than you ever really expected them to.

[Nintao]

It would also mean that any of the NASCAR drivers could legally carry during the race with or without a CHL.

Don't you have to own the car for that to apply (or own the bussiness)??? I always thought so, but it would be nice to know for sure. Such as a non CHL holder carrying in a friend's car (or riding passenger). But if that is the case, you own the team and are the driver then you would be carring at your place of business right :p...

But again on a serious note I would like to know if an non-CHL carry in another person's vehicle as both a passenger and as an operator is legal.

Thanks

[GlockFan]

I was there Sat and Sun. I just put it in the trunk in a lock box. Sure enjoyed the races Folks up in the Denton -Ft Worth area are a bunch of nice people. How 'bout that Tony Stewart?