interesting idea for an gun range with video targets

[TexasComputerDude]

hey yall, I was driving home this afternoon and was thinking about what I would do in the event that a bad guy tried to rob or kill me. At first I had the idea that I would instantly draw and fire and do what needed to be done, but the more I thought about it, the more I realized that I doubt I could recognize the threat or draw before it was to late. So this brought about an idea for a gunfight simulator.

I'm thinking about recording some videos of me and some friends in different clothing, in varying scenarios and setting up my projector to play them back life sized on a white screen. I may make the program freeze the video the moment it detects my shot. This would work for distances within say 10 to 15 feet and maybe I could get another projector to expand the screen and create a panoramic video, idk.

but what would do yall think of this idea.

I've already got 90% of the equipment to build this, and a weekend of recording videos and programming should get at least a prototype up and running. If the video froze when detecting a gunshot it would even tell your accuracy. I could even make it do hostage scenarios and the like.

Thoughts? This (if I offered my program for free or cheap) could be something that a gun range could set up for under a grand.

If I really went in depth and spent a good while programming maybe I could make it respond to voice commands, but thats way way in the future.

[bubba1876]

This reminds me of the scene in Beverly Hills Cop II, when Axel Foley goes into the Beverly Hills gun club and shoots up the screens with his gun! Too funny.
But your idea does sound useful. I'd love to be able to have this kind of training. I guess the only option out there to actually "shoot" someone is the airsoft/force on force courses? maybe? Otherwise it's just paper or steel.

[kd5zex]

I once attended some embassy training courtesy of the USMC similar to your idea. The screen was a white rubber pad and a projector would display different scenarios where you had to choose to fire or not. If you did shoot you could clearly see the bullet holes in the pad and play the video back frame by frame to see if you "lived" or not. The bullet holes were then "painted" over using a rubberized paint material.

It was quite realistic, I blew away a dude who climbed over the embassy wall, told me he a had a letter for the Ambassador, reached in his coat and pulled out a hot dog... 1 round COM and one to the shoulder with a .357 Mag.

It being USMC I am sure it cost way more than a grand, there was a recording of your audio and some other features I don't remember clearly. The entire simulator was housed in a sort of mobile home about the size of a half shipping container.

What was really cool was the remedial rifle range, it too was video based. Your muzzle location was tracked before, during, and after your shot. The rifles were exact replicas of M16s except they generated recoil via compressed air and had lasers in the barrels I suppose.

ETA: It was something like this:
http://www.caps-inc.com/html/simulator.html

[TexasComputerDude]

lol well that sure looks expensive lol.

[TexasComputerDude]

while I haven't researched if there are any similar systems to this, maybe it could be a chl instructor/student aide.

with scenarios such as:

a pitbull coming out of no where and grabbing your puppy, you or someone else.
a terrorist attack.
a mall shooting.
a few scenarios where nothing happens at all.

They could be randomized so that you don't know whats going to happen, you don't know if a pitbull is going to show up inside the mall or a random BG stealing your wallet. It could help test your split second decision skills and help hone them. Maybe it could even display the appropriate legal advice after each scenario.

I doubt any of the police or military systems are geared towards civilians concealed carrying.

that much detail would be more than a weekend undertaking though.

[ddurkof]

There is a system that has been around for years called FATS. http://www.fatsinc.com/main.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Cool system, but expensive. I think that Houston Community College has one, but I am not sure. I have never been through it. I did go through a Shoot - Don't shoot school about 20 years ago, where we used blanks. No ability to score hits, but the situations could be played out a million different ways. Then there is Simunition http://www.simunition.com/index_en.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; . You know when you have been hit with these things. They hurt. Again a varied number of scenarios you can go through. While the initial cost of the simunition start up would be high, it would be cheaper than developing your own system. Even cheaper is the paint ball or air soft games the "kids" play. Not as real as simunition, but a whole lot cheaper. Great idea, but it seems like it would take a lot of money to start up. Good luck. Dave

[stevie_d_64]

It was probably a system similar to this:

[TexasComputerDude]

Great idea, but it seems like it would take a lot of money to start up. Good luck. Dave

actually, it won't cost me more than a few boxes of ammunition to test it with as I already have all the supplies/projector/guns to build it with lol. I'm just thinking of doing something for myself that maybe a few people might like to play with. more of a geek project.

[jimlongley]

When I took the City of Allen's Citizen's Police Academy last year, we were run through the FATS.

I did a great job of using concealment and issuing commands and even shot the guy who killed everyone else in the class, but over all I did not do very well.

I nailed the one bad guy COM as he drew his gun, and then as I transitioned to the other bad guys, I shot a bystander, a TV, and a flower pot.

Of course the lesson is to not just turn your head while yanking the trigger, the gun should travel with your vision, but at least I had well spaced shots and they didn't vary more than an inch vertically from my line of travel as I transationed around the room firing as I went.

Gave me a lot to think about - I have never done a think like that in years of IDPA and I would have to wonder if I would really react like that in a stress fire situation, or was it the fact that the gun had absolutely no recoil and the sound was all wrong that gave my muscle memory the wrong cues?

Perhaps today's improved BB guns could be used in such a scenario to provide a better tactile sense without having to involve the complications and safety issues of live ammo.

[CompVest]

I think it sounds like a great project! I would be happy to try it out. Might be a bit of a trip for SRVA and I. It would be a fun weekend vacation! Got any good B&B's in your area?

Keep us up to date on your progress.

[TexasComputerDude]

will do, wish I had thought about this before I slept away spring break. lol.

[srothstein]

The real question to these systems is how you will detect the shot and the accuracy. In most of the simulators on the market, they use a laser beam and an infrared camera to detect the shot. The FATS (Meggitt brand) system has a live fire system that uses the mentioned rubber screen and microphones to detect the shot and the hit location. Lasershot has a live fire system that uses a different type of infrared camera to track the shot by heat.

The law enforcement training systems generally will go for around $60,000 or so each, plus the weapons (with lasers) go for a couple thousand each. The best pistols are the CO2 operated for recoil.

My preference for systems overall is the Lasershot, but I have to give the FATS the nod for one cool feature. Their guns are bluetooth capable and the operator can send the command to the gun to simulate a jam.

Both of these systems have scenarios available and the capability for the user to make his own. I was given an estimate of $5,000 per scenario to get more scenarios made by a film company in my office building.


Now for the good news. If you go to the lasershot web site (http://www.lasershot.com/) and select their consumer products for home theater, they have some neat systems available for anyone to use. No scenarios, but great skills training and fun. Their Consumer products division includes a hunting education system that also looks good to me. And these are in the $1500 to 2500 range.

[TexasComputerDude]

idk how I could detect the gunshot, maybe make it detect the gunflash, or the sound.

basically I just want a moving human target that is random.

[stevie_d_64]

Now for the good news. If you go to the lasershot web site (http://www.lasershot.com/) and select their consumer products for home theater, they have some neat systems available for anyone to use. No scenarios, but great skills training and fun. Their Consumer products division includes a hunting education system that also looks good to me. And these are in the $1500 to 2500 range.

The hunting senarios look pretty neat, but they remind me of an arcade style system...But...Since they have a .45 1911 handgun that is available with a home system, I seriously doubt that would be used to simulate a hunting situation...

I bet they have to have some shoot, no-shoot plug in's for a home system...They just have to have something like that, or give you the ability to make, and run a custom one for yourself and play it on the system...

I like it anyway...

[CompVest]

I agree that knowing where your shot hit is great but just having a program of shoot no shoot situations to practice getting your gun out and on target would be helpful.