My Dog attacked by Pitbull while wearing my CCW

[Captain Matt]

Trying to "stay the adult" I finally kept urging him to chill out or cool off.

That sounds more "parent" than "adult" from my CHL class.

[fickman]

I'm not dog-piling here, but I thought I'd offer my opinion, too.

It could have been very bad if you had pulled a firearm. It all depends on the witness accounts, the DA, and the grand jury, but you could have been charged. In a civil suit, I think you would have lost. As somebody else said, in the heat of the moment, you could have been shot - and it might have been viewed as justifiable self-defense from the other guy's perspective when he told his point of view to the investigators.

In Fort Worth, you can't even chain a dog in a front yard if it's not fenced. Dogs have to be in a fence, in your house, or on a leash controlled by the owner. Just like you couldn't know their dog's intention, they (or their dog) couldn't know yours or your dogs. Your party was the aggressor, they were defensive. That's how almost any jury would find it after hearing both sides. You might get a few points by vilifying the breed, but I doubt it would overcome the rest of the evidence.

By the way, I'm not innocent here, either. Our dog rarely goes out the front door, but she did sneak past a family member coming to visit the other day when she saw a jogger pass on the sidewalk. She's an 80 lb. weimaraner. . . so we know she's playful, loving, and non-aggressive, but that jogger sure was scared. My dog wagged her tail and jumped to kiss the jogger on the face a couple of times before listening to my "come" command and returning. If he'd had an aggressive dog and that chose to attack mine, I would've had to accept the responsibility.

I'll also echo the guys who are saying that they never allow their dog to mingle with others on the street - whether leashed or not. If you've ever dealt with Parvo, distemper, ear infections, or even kennel-cough, you'll know why. Regardless of the chances of a fight breaking out, there are a lot of nasty diseases that can be spread from dogs touching noses. You don't have that other dog's shot records.

When I walk my dog and come across another walker / jogger, I immediately shorten the leash in my hand to about 18". Then one of us will either stop in the grass while the other ones passes, pass in the grass (staying to your own right), go in the street, or cross to the other side of the street. This has almost always happened automatically without any of us having to negotiate what to do. It seems like most people in my neighborhood tacitly agree with me.

If one or more parties are jogging, they'll just give a head nod or a wave. If all parties are walking, we might chat for a few seconds, but never let the dogs reach each other. I use it as a chance to teach my dog to sit at my side an wait for a "heal" command. She's not supposed to break the "sit" until I tell her to do so.

[flintknapper]

I'm not dog-piling here, but I thought I'd offer my opinion, too.

It could have been very bad if you had pulled a firearm. It all depends on the witness accounts, the DA, and the grand jury, but you could have been charged. In a civil suit, I think you would have lost. As somebody else said, in the heat of the moment, you could have been shot - and it might have been viewed as justifiable self-defense from the other guy's perspective when he told his point of view to the investigators.

In Fort Worth, you can't even chain a dog in a front yard if it's not fenced. Dogs have to be in a fence, in your house, or on a leash controlled by the owner. Just like you couldn't know their dog's intention, they (or their dog) couldn't know yours or your dogs. Your party was the aggressor, they were defensive. That's how almost any jury would find it after hearing both sides. You might get a few points by vilifying the breed, but I doubt it would overcome the rest of the evidence.

By the way, I'm not innocent here, either. Our dog rarely goes out the front door, but she did sneak past a family member coming to visit the other day when she saw a jogger pass on the sidewalk. She's an 80 lb. weimaraner. . . so we know she's playful, loving, and non-aggressive, but that jogger sure was scared. My dog wagged her tail and jumped to kiss the jogger on the face a couple of times before listening to my "come" command and returning. If he'd had an aggressive dog and that chose to attack mine, I would've had to accept the responsibility.

I'll also echo the guys who are saying that they never allow their dog to mingle with others on the street - whether leashed or not. If you've ever dealt with Parvo, distemper, ear infections, or even kennel-cough, you'll know why. Regardless of the chances of a fight breaking out, there are a lot of nasty diseases that can be spread from dogs touching noses. You don't have that other dog's shot records.

When I walk my dog and come across another walker / jogger, I immediately shorten the leash in my hand to about 18". Then one of us will either stop in the grass while the other ones passes, pass in the grass (staying to your own right), go in the street, or cross to the other side of the street. This has almost always happened automatically without any of us having to negotiate what to do. It seems like most people in my neighborhood tacitly agree with me.

If one or more parties are jogging, they'll just give a head nod or a wave. If all parties are walking, we might chat for a few seconds, but never let the dogs reach each other. I use it as a chance to teach my dog to sit at my side an wait for a "heal" command. She's not supposed to break the "sit" until I tell her to do so.

There ya go!

[Right2Carry]

I'm not dog-piling here, but I thought I'd offer my opinion, too.

It could have been very bad if you had pulled a firearm. It all depends on the witness accounts, the DA, and the grand jury, but you could have been charged. In a civil suit, I think you would have lost. As somebody else said, in the heat of the moment, you could have been shot - and it might have been viewed as justifiable self-defense from the other guy's perspective when he told his point of view to the investigators.

In Fort Worth, you can't even chain a dog in a front yard if it's not fenced. Dogs have to be in a fence, in your house, or on a leash controlled by the owner. Just like you couldn't know their dog's intention, they (or their dog) couldn't know yours or your dogs. Your party was the aggressor, they were defensive. That's how almost any jury would find it after hearing both sides. You might get a few points by vilifying the breed, but I doubt it would overcome the rest of the evidence.

By the way, I'm not innocent here, either. Our dog rarely goes out the front door, but she did sneak past a family member coming to visit the other day when she saw a jogger pass on the sidewalk. She's an 80 lb. weimaraner. . . so we know she's playful, loving, and non-aggressive, but that jogger sure was scared. My dog wagged her tail and jumped to kiss the jogger on the face a couple of times before listening to my "come" command and returning. If he'd had an aggressive dog and that chose to attack mine, I would've had to accept the responsibility.

I'll also echo the guys who are saying that they never allow their dog to mingle with others on the street - whether leashed or not. If you've ever dealt with Parvo, distemper, ear infections, or even kennel-cough, you'll know why. Regardless of the chances of a fight breaking out, there are a lot of nasty diseases that can be spread from dogs touching noses. You don't have that other dog's shot records.

When I walk my dog and come across another walker / jogger, I immediately shorten the leash in my hand to about 18". Then one of us will either stop in the grass while the other ones passes, pass in the grass (staying to your own right), go in the street, or cross to the other side of the street. This has almost always happened automatically without any of us having to negotiate what to do. It seems like most people in my neighborhood tacitly agree with me.

If one or more parties are jogging, they'll just give a head nod or a wave. If all parties are walking, we might chat for a few seconds, but never let the dogs reach each other. I use it as a chance to teach my dog to sit at my side an wait for a "heal" command. She's not supposed to break the "sit" until I tell her to do so.

Well stated!

[Sangiovese]

An unrestrained dog that approaches a dog on a leash is a powderkeg waiting to go off.

It is a pretty commonly understood phenomenon that dogs that are restrained on a leash or tied up are more likely to display aggression when frightened or threatened, because they cannot escape.

You commonly see this at dog parks where dogs are allowed to run off leash. If someone keeps their dog leashed, it is likely to get into snarling matches or scuffles when approached by the unleashed dogs.

I'm terribly sorry that you had an unfortunate event, but the fact that your unrestrained dog approached a leashed dog in a manner that could be construed as threatening to either the dog or the owner is what caused the problem.

Whether there is a leash law or not... dog psychology will always apply - and a leashed dog will be more aggressive toward an unleashed one.

[shootthesheet]

I will post here exactly what I told a lady who had two of her dogs shot, not by me, a while back. Keep your animals under control and that won't happen. I have seen "Fluffy the pet" turn into a pack animal and kill other animals to often to ever believe any owner who claims their dog isn't aggressive or violent. In the right circumstances any animal is a danger and must be looked on as such. That includes any dog or cat or hog or horse or Chimpanzee or whatever. Once outside the control of their owner they are either a nuisance or a potential danger.

Animals can be a joy but they can also be a hazard. I will not risk any human life, the only kind that is really important to me, to save any animal. Every time a shot is fired to save an animal is a risk that should not have been taken. If it is a person being attacked and there is not another option then sure, save the cheerleader or whatever. I have to say if I found out my kid or wife died or was hurt because somebody shot an animal to save their animal...you fill in the blank. Put that way, I hope we all think before we are so willing to fire off a round to save an animal no matter how attached we have become and how many human emotions or traits we are projecting on that animal. That is my opinion and I am a pet owner.

[Liberty]

One mans pet is another mans vermin.
If its not mine, and on my property Fluffy becomes vermin
Get of my lawn!

[Tass]

Doug,

Dog breeds aside, you would be well served to read an article titled: "He just wants to say 'Hi'" by Suzanne Clothier. (google it, can't find the link)

Your dog, off leash, approached a leashed dog in what the leashed dog perceived as a threatening manner. The leashed dog was well within his/her rights to defend itself. This is precisely the reason off-leash dog parks require all dogs to be unleashed. The leashed dog will often react in a negative manner because the leash is limiting the dogs ability to respond to the signals given by the strange dog.

When walking your dog on-leash, you should never allow your dog to approach another dog without the permission of the other dog owner. To not ask, is RUDE and possibly dangerous. You may run into me walking my dog who is very reactive and has a low threshold for rude dog behavior. I do not allow my dog to 'say hello' when on leash. She is defensive, having been attacked from behind 3x while walking on leash. She does not tolerate pushy, in-your-face behavior. Just this weekend at the vet a customer came in with a poodle (who was accustomed to being fawned over by everyone) on a retractable flexi-lead. The dog kept drifting closer to us (we were as far away from the general waiting area as could be) and I repeatedly told the owner my dog does not want to meet your dog. He kept rolling his eyes and letting the dog drift on the lead until I said loudly, Sir, please get your dog. He then behaved as if I told him his offspring was ugly.

It is your duty as a responsible dog owner to know the laws in your area and to protect your dog. Again, I can't say enough how important it is for you to read this article.

To address shooting a dog, several years ago a neighbor shot a stray dog in the street-rumors were the dog attempted to bite some children-the homeowner was issued a citation for illegal discharge of a firearm. Something to keep in mind.

Tass

[NcongruNt]

The article in the above post can be found here:

http://www.livingwithdogs.us/articles/H ... say-hi.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[flb_78]

[bonehead1185]

First off, I'm sorry to hear about your father's injuries.

When I first read the title I thought this would be terrible accident, but I too must agree that leash laws are there for a reason. Where I live at it is actually stated in the lease that all dogs must be on leashes at all times. My dog, a pit/boxer mix, is always on a leash if we are not inside the apartment. Sadly there are a couple of people around me who don't have the same logic. My dog is very nice, sweet, and caring, but when someone or another dog comes at her or me she gets on the defensive and will stand her ground. Just recently I have had to jerk my dog through the air and immediately pick her up because of my neighbors who think they are above the law. I hate having to scare my dog by jerking her just because of the unintelligible people around here. I will always do what I can to prevent her from fighting with another dog, mainly because she would kill most anything that tried, but if someday one of these other dogs is unlucky enough I will not feel one bit sorry for the owner. I'm NOT saying I won't do anything, because I will, just to be clear.

One thing that really bugs me is when I take my dog to the pet store how the majority of parents are so ignorant about animal behaviors. I can't tell you how many times I have had to step in front of kids or sternly state to the parents not to approach me or my dog. I always get ugly looks but its better than them being possibly bitten.

I also can not believe the statements made by people about how pits are so aggressive and bred to be mean. I can not tell you how many times I have heard that statement while working at a vet clinic for 5 years, as the kennel tech who handled all dogs in the clinic. From my experience the most aggressive dog breed is the chihuahua hands down! I got more bite and scratch wounds from that breed then all other breeds combined. That is even including the one time my hand slipped into a pit bull's mouth when he was irritated and nothing happened.

Everything always comes down to the dog owners and how well they actually know how their dog will react in certain situations. I hope from now on you will always use a leash and that you will stop letting your dog go up to other dogs that you don't know anything about.

P.S.- To fickman, I don't mean to sound arrogant or anything but the diseases you listed can also be caught from the ground and droppings of the infected dogs. Parvo especially will stay in the area for a long time after the infected dog leaves. That's one little fact most dog owners never know about yet its the main killer of their puppies. Just one more reason to always have your dog on a leash so you know where it goes sniffing at.

[dihappy]

^
Never would have happened? How do you figure that? As said, this easily could have happened with a leash on both dogs. One of the most common things people do when passing people with other dogs on walks is let fellow dogs sniff and "say hello." In fact...I came across these same guys and this same pit a week or two earlier with my dog on a leash. At the time, the dog was friendly nothing happened...but it easily could have chomped down and gotten ahold my dogs neck (or anybody elses dog who happened to be walking by). If my arms and hands can't pull the dog free...neither is a leash attached to his neck

Doug, i have to disagree. It is much easier to control your dog while on a leash. It is much easier and quicker to pull your dog away if either dog shows signs of aggression. Ive had to do it and im sure many others have as well.

An unleashed dog is NOT going to be easy to get a hold of when a fight occurs.

Unfortunately your unleashed dog resulted in an injury which could have been avoided. I have seen many people who have very well behaved dogs running around unleashed. Forgive me, but these people fail to realize that some people are afraid of dogs and to see one running around unleashed can be terrifying. Not to mention that fact that they may encounter another "unleashed" or even "leashed" dog which is not socially trained and will attack out of fear.

Hope things go well for you and your dog.

[dihappy]

Not to pile on but... I'm gonna agree that your dog should have been on the leash. I believe that the incident would not have happened if your dog was on the leash, because you could have separated them immediately when things started to turn aggressive until not having a chance until your dog was in the death hold.

But it really doesn't matter. If I'm speeding and then get involved in a crash, it doesn't really matter if the crash wasn't caused by my excessive speed, I'm gonna take at least a chunk if not all of the rap. Same deal here. You can't be guilty of breaking a law, get involved in a situation related to it, and then say it's the other guy's fault. Like it or not, that's the system.

p.s. I consider people letting their dog get within leash reach of my dog when they're both on a walk as being extremely inconsiderate and troublesome. There is no need for that and I wouldn't tolerate it. You might be unlucky enough to run into other weird/rude dog owners like myself. If you've noticed, if dogs never get within reach of each other, they NEVER get hold of each other's throats and try to kill one another.

Dave,
I dont like it when other dog owners let their dogs get close to my dog either. I would love it if i knew all dogs were friendly and playful, but they arent. Im sure you know what i mean when i say i have run into people who swore their dogs were friendly only to have their dogs try to eat my little poopsie :(

Heck, i have to remind/scold my girlfriend every time she lets my dog just go up to people walking their dogs. I tell her its rude and that we dont know if their dog is friendly. I'd be a wreck if my little Attypoo got hurt.

Atlas

[03Lightningrocks]

I commend you for your restraint. If it were me, that would have been one very dead pit bull. I would have shot that dog with no remorse or hesitation.

[03Lightningrocks]

One mans pet is another mans vermin.
If its not mine, and on my property Fluffy becomes vermin
Get of my lawn!

...that is so true.