My Dog attacked by Pitbull while wearing my CCW

[RedRaider]

And Pit Bulls are notorious fighting dogs.

Just like guns are notorious killing machines

[Aggie_engr]

First off I would like to say sorry to hear of this as it sounds like it was a very stressful situation, and sorry that your father was injured in the process and I hope for his speedy recovery.

Even though I do not own a dog personally, growing up we had plenty of dogs so I know where you are coming from. I believe that pepper spray would be a very useful tool in breaking up an animal fight (we just used the water hose to break up our dogs up). Had it been me, I would have deployed the pepper spray. Non-lethal, the fight gets broken up, and every one goes home alright.

I can't say that I would use a firearm to defend my pet against someone else's animal in this instance. If the dog would have turned on my father or I and attacked either one of us, then it would be a different story.

Just for the record, and not trying to infringe on anyones 'right' to own certain dangerous and aggressive animals, but I despise pit bulls. I just don't trust them as said before they are unpredictable. Had numerous people walking them on the crowded beach here in galveston this week while the girlfriend and I were trying to relax when one suddenly ran up to my girlfriend to sniff her (not in a very playful demeanor) while the guy walking him just grinned and laughed. I wanted to yell at him if he didn't get that dog away from her I'm going to knock some teeth out, and not the dog's teeth!

Not to knock on you Mr. Doug, but the leash law in Texas is not at all a mickey mouse law. Just last month my younger brother, 18, was driving home after basketball practice on a wet moring when someone's dog that was not contained by a leash or fence darted out in front of him. My brother hit his brakes and swerved to miss the dog, only to end up hitting a tree in the bottom of the road ditch, which stopped his ford f-250 on impact. Luckily he only came out with a bloody nose and some bruises but the owner of the dog was tracked down by the local pd and cited for not containing his dog. The laws are there for a reason, as stated earlier.

To conclude, I am not against you one bit for wanting to shoot this dog to save your puppy's life, and I don't think most of the people that posted on here are either. But rather it would be an unwise decision on your part based on the situation that you were in to use a firearm.

Take care, and GET SOME PEPPER SPRAY!

[gmckinl]

p.s. I consider people letting their dog get within leash reach of my dog when they're both on a walk as being extremely inconsiderate and troublesome. There is no need for that and I wouldn't tolerate it.

I guess we live in different kinds of neighborhoods. Where I come from, having your dog come into contact and reach another is considered fun, frisky and playful. People around here commonly do it.

Yes we do live in different neighborhoods. I'm w/ slowdave on his quote 100%. Unless the dogs know each other, they need to be kept apart. Someone needs to detour off by more than leash distance. Bringing together strange dogs being handled by strangers is NOT fun, it IS very very rude. Please DO NOT run your dog up to mine if I don't know you, I'll return the favor. Ask permission first. Point for slowdave.

To one of the original post's points... Nor should kids be allowed to run up to strange dogs, that's just asking for problems. Ask permission first. Many dogs that have not been around little kids have great difficultity with them. The kids move quicker than older adults and it scares the dogs. They simply don't know how to react other than from fear. Little dogs especially seem prone to this behavior from what I've seen first-hand.

[Rex B]

Doug, you came here asking what we thought about the situation.
You got numerous answers, all the same, and you didn't like any of them.
You were correct not to shoot, you would have had problems.

I'm glad it did not turn out worse, as it could have.

[flintknapper]

flb_78 wrote:

Sorry Steve, I have to disagree. If some unknown dog comes running out and jumps on my dog and my dog defends itself, the owner of the unleashed dog has no legal right to shoot my dog and I would most likely take action to defend my leashed animal's life.

smaller harmless dogs

No such thing, all dogs are capable of inflicting injury, no matter the size.

Agreed, since the key word in the defense he provided was "attack".

Logically, (in this case) the word conveys the meaning "initiated". Sounds to me like the pit was defending itself from a perceived threat. Or asserting it's dominance (a fairly normal thing for dogs).

Too, the person making the complaint has a clear prejudice against the breed, so lets be honest about that too.

This was a completely avoidable circumstance, end of story.

[Aggie_engr]

All of the posts were not the same.

Doug had every right in the moment emotionally to defend his pet, even with a firearm. Legally, possibly not in which I commend him for making the right decision on not shooting and trying to de-escalate the person who was walking the pit.

Some posts were directly aimed at Doug and his lack of knowledge of the law, to which he admitted several times. Mine were not so all posts were not the same. Doug came here asking for a civil response, which he obviously didn't recieve since the thread was advised to stay civil or be locked.

As Mr. Rothstein stated, it worked out in the favor of both parties, no death of the pets and no person was seriously maimed. I may be proven wrong if later reports from Doug come back that his father's finger was not able to be re-attatched (amputated) or is now paralyzed/useless from the attack. May the lord bless this man and that it it does not become the latter.

[Aggie_engr]

Was the situation preventable, yes. That is a fact.

Pit bulls are known for their aggressiveness and ability to fight. That is also a fact.

Animals have been breed for certain traits and characteristics for centuries. Are dogs excluded from this, I think not.

[Oldgringo]

Next subject?

[Purplehood]

I don't see leash-laws as being "Mickey Mouse" in any way, shape or form.

Having been a city postal carrier for a year (before I went Postal), I can attest to the need for leash laws. They protect every party involved and prevent a lot of unnecessary heartburn and anguish.

In all of my dog-related events while carrying mail, I only came across one large-breed dog actively attacking me. In all other cases where I actually did get bitten it was from dogs 10 pounds or less that were not leashed. In fact, a leash or a fence would have saved one poor pup that bolted into the street in front of my postal truck.

I look at this incident pretty much the same way. If the puppy had been leashed he wouldn't have been able to run straight into danger.

[frazzled]

Well I'm not happy about it. I wouldn't be on here talking about it except to discuss a tactical CCW situation that could potentially develop into use of CCW. It's over, dad's thumb is mending, my dog goes out on a leash now, haven't seen those guys or their dogs since, no charges have been pressed by me, dad or the police on either side.

Ok lets discuss the tactical situation.

Dog A is on a leash. Your unleashed Dog B runs up to Dog A and they get in a fight. OT but I didn't catch what type of puppy.
You and Dog Owner A are now arguing while the dogs are fighting.
You pull a gun.

Here's the problem.
At that point Dog Owner A may have a reasonable belief that you are about to cause him lethal harm. Dog Owner A may draw his own pistol and we have what we call bad day at black rock.

Moral:
----You were in the wrong for having an unleashed dog. An unleashed dog running up to a leashed dog is a recipe for a disaster as the leashed dog is at a disadvantage. Disadvantage breeds defense mechanisms going up.
----They were in the wrong for not trying to also extricate their dog from the fight. They should have been able to pull the dog off. I had a large pit bull mix. He was strong as a bull but he was just a dog and I could pull him off. Two owners should have been able to do it without difficulty.

Compounding it by pulling a pistol would have been a very bad move.


EDIT: Sounds like your dad needs a vacation.

[Keith B]

p.s. I consider people letting their dog get within leash reach of my dog when they're both on a walk as being extremely inconsiderate and troublesome. There is no need for that and I wouldn't tolerate it. You might be unlucky enough to run into other weird/rude dog owners like myself. If you've noticed, if dogs never get within reach of each other, they NEVER get hold of each other's throats and try to kill one another.

I guess we live in different kinds of neighborhoods. Where I come from, having your dog come into contact and reach another is considered fun, frisky and playful. People around here commonly do it. In fact, like I said, those guys did it with their Pit Bulls until this incident anyway. I even came into contact with them once before. They showed no agressive behavior...that time...but they WERE in full contact and could easily have snatched my dog by the neck or any other dog being walked out there.

I was going to stay out of the discussion, but have to enter in.

Dogs are dogs. I have owned many over the years and they can be playing one minute and fighting the next. You have to acclimate dogs to each other and once they have established the Alpha role of the two, THEN you can be more at ease.

A very good friend of mine is a veterinarian and I helped him establish his clinic years ago. If you knew how many dogs have come in with injuries from 'playing' which turned into a fight you would think again about letting your dog approach another one. I will NEVER let my dog go up to an unknown dog, whether on a leash or not.

Terrier breeds are usually more aggressive and will tend to fight more quickly than some other breeds. I have a small Manchester Terrier (my third one) that weighs 11 pounds. They were bred in the 1700's in England for killing rats and mice and were used in rings to time them to see how long it took them to kill 100 rats. She will scrap with the biggest dog around if she thinks her territory is being invaded. If you combine the aggressive terrier part with the extremely strong jaws and stout body and size of the American Staffordshire Terrier (aka Pit Bull Terrier) and you have a natural bred fighting machine. Are Pits naturally mean? Generally no, but they can be made to be more aggressive toward other dogs and taught to fight, and that is why they are used as ring dogs. Terriers are strong willed and when they get into a fight, they usually don't back down until they win or are so badly injured they can't go any longer.

Bottom line, leash or not, you should keep your dog under control and away from other dogs until they have established territories and boundaries and you are comfortable with their demeanors when together. At that point they can get into the wrestling and playing mode.

I am glad your dog was not hurt in this incident and hope you Dad recovers quickly from him injuries.

[crochetetc]

I have one question on the whole situation that is bugging me.

What were you doing when your dog took off? Did the dog run from the house or were you hanging around outside in the yard with it? I ask because I am guilty of letting the girls (12yo rat terrier mix and 11 yo dalmation) go into the garage with me to take out trash or get something out of the car and most of the time the garage door is open and they explore the area. I see nothing wrong with this as it is their territory. They have also been known to seek past guests out the front door.

[RPBrown]

First, let me say I'm gl;ad both dogs are okay and sorry your father got injured. I truley hope he is okay.

Now, on to the subjects at hand.

1) Don't blame the breed for the way it's raised. I have a Pit and you can't ask for a more lovable animal. However, he will defend his property and his owners. We were walking him (and our others) and passed the same people and leashed dogs on many occassions with no problems. However, when the same dog he had met before got out of his yard and came toward us all of our dogs (the pit, a golden, a 15 lb mixed breed and an 11 lb mixed breed)) were in defense mode and backed the other one down. Its their nature to protect and defend what is theirs.

2) If the other dog was on a leash, and on the public right of way (sidewalk, street, etc) then you were at fault. Granted, he should have had a little better control of his dog but ultimatly, you were at fault. Now, if they were in your yard, that may be a different story. Not much but somewhat different.

3) My wife and daughter own a groom shop. For the most part, the dogs are allowed to intermingle unless there is a truly aggressive dog on the floor. Never have they had a problem, Even with the Pits they do (other than ours) or Dobermans, Shephards, Rotts or any other breeds.

4) My 11 lb. mixed breed will put the 2 larger dogs in their place as she was the 1st and is the alpha.

5) in 37+ years in the air conditioning business, I have been bitten twice. Both time by Chihauhas. Pound for pound, they can be the meanest dogs on the planet when they are protecting their domain.

[mymojo]

Rule number one: Dogs are not humans. They do not think like humans. You can treat them as your "Fur children" all you want, but at the end of the day they are lower animals with lower mental capacity. Once you understand that, ask any dog trainer how dogs interpret being charged.

You broke a law and your dog almost died as a consequence. If you keep trying to spin the answer instead of learning from your mistake, your dog is gonna wind up in this situation again.

IMO, Had you shot the dog in the situation you described you might risk losing your CHL since the other dog was just defending itself.


BTW, I live in a nice neighborhood with a green belt and lots of people walk their dogs and most enjoy letting the dogs socialize. But the *responsible* pet owners discuss letting the dogs inteact prior to letting them and even then will keep the leashes taught.

[LaserTex]

And I have a Staffordshire Terrier (looks a lot like a pit)..

Doug