My Dog attacked by Pitbull while wearing my CCW

[rbraughn]

Sorry, I agree with the other posters also. Your dog was not on a leash, you were at fault.

If your dog was unleashed and ran across the street and was hit by a car, whose fault is that ? Yours

[RedRaider]

but if your dog had been leashed, it would not have gotten that close to the other dog without your permission.

Yes it would have. People give their permission all the time letting their dogs get close. People do it all the time walking in the neighborhood. In fact..go to any dog park, dogs are running around out there all the time unleashed. If two guys walk in with leashed pitbulls and a dog runs up....well.

Its different when all dogs are unleashed versus when 1 is on a leash and another is not on a leash. I've been to a dog park numerous times, and the only times I've ever seen any aggression from any dogs is when there is a leashed dog in the area.......and it doesn't matter if its a pitbull or not (not sure where that statement comes from).

Moral of the story, you're at fault, if YOU had controlled YOUR dog (i.e. leashed him or had him in your back yard) this would have never happened. I've had my beagle attacked by 2 dalmatians so I totally understand the frustration, anger, and fear that comes with a situation like this. He was on a leash and the other dogs weren't, it took everything to separate the dogs. I understand your anger, but see it from the other side, they were walking their dog on a leash and your dog comes out of nowhere not on a leash, if I was in their shoes I would have been upset too. Now having said that, I wouldn't have cursed you though, I would have done everything to get the dog off of your dog.

Now a flip side to your original question.........

I'm walking my dog down the street on a leash and a neighbors dog runs up to my dog. My dog is not sure if he's wanting to play or not and attacks the neighbors dog that is not under anyones control and is not on a leash, I do everything I can to get my dog off the neighbors dog (unlike the owner you're talking about), and so is the neighbors dog owner. The neighbor, a concealed license holder, pulls out a gun to shoot my dog because he couldn't control his dog in the first place (this is the reason the whole event even took place)........Well, I too am a concealed license holder and WILL protect my dog as well because I know I'm in the right because the other dog was lose in the first place.........do I have a right to defend my dogs life?

I only pose this question because I too am a concealed license holder, with a Pitt Bull, and I responsibliy walk my dog on a leash night in and night out.

BTW, I carry pepper spray and an extremely sturdy walking stick for situations like this anyways, I really couldn't fathom using a firearm in a situation like this unless it really was the last resort...........its always better to have options beyond a firearm.

[flintknapper]

[quote="flb_78
Whatever, keep telling yourself it's not your fault. Your dog was unleased, ran at anther dog, the other dog took it as an act of aggression and acted accordingly.

It's bad the entire thing even happened and that your father has to seek medical care, but if your dog had been leashed, it would not have gotten that close to the other dog without your permission.[/quote]

^^^^
Theres your answer folks!


This is NOT complicated.

[gmckinl]

Dude, there is no bigger dog lover here than me. I would not fault the officer if he'd written you a huge ticket or worse. No dog should ever be off a lease (outdoors) in the city outside of a fenced yard. No, I do not allow our dog to approach or be approached by other dogs even when they are on a lease. Ours has only been to a dog park once, and even then she still stayed on a leash, just a longer one. It's never acceptable in the city - sorry.

In any event, sorry your dog and dad are hurting. Hope they get better soon.

[Abraham]

You seek agreement for your actions.

Calling a law Micky Mouse and facts irrelevant gives off the aura of irresponsibility....

Get a leash, use it and stop complaining.

You were in the wrong.

[Keith B]

OK folks, please stay civil in future posts or the thread will be locked.

[srothstein]

I think everyone in the thread so far, including Doug, has agreed that he is at least partly at fault for his dog not being leashed. I am not clear where the attack occurred, so I am not sure how much this really makes a difference in the case. If the dog was unleashed on his front lawn and the other dog was being walked in the neighborhood on a leash it might be different from if they were at a park and one dog was leashed and the other was not. I do recommend always having the dog leashed if it is not inside the house, but unleashed in your own yard is different from unleashed in a park, at least to me.

And Doug, I want to point out that you made some statements in your post that indicate how angry you still were about the incident. Well, emotionally invested maybe instead of angry. The statements like calling the pit a "large fighting dog" are what I mean. The dog may never have been taught to fight or may indeed be a true fighter. We don't know about that part. I know some pits that are as gentle as can be since they were raised that way. Take a little time and then come back to this and look at the thread from an outsider's point of view. It may help you understand the other posts a little better.

And finally, I just wanted to point out section Sec. 822.013 of the Health and Safety Code. As you can see below, it clearly would have allowed you to shoot the pit.

DOGS OR COYOTES THAT ATTACK ANIMALS. (a) A dog or coyote that is attacking, is about to attack, or has recently attacked livestock, domestic animals, or fowls may be killed by:
(1) any person witnessing the attack; or
(2) the attacked animal's owner or a person acting on behalf of the owner if the owner or person has knowledge of the attack.

So, I think the two cops you talked to were both correct and gave you good advice. You could have shot the pit but you still would have been civilly liable for any missed shots and where they went. In this case, not shooting might have been a good idea. It worked out as best as could be expected, anyway.

[Oldgringo]

srothstein mentioned:

...emotionally invested...

Thanks, Steve. I'm gonna' catalog that expression for future use. Somehow, it sounds much more polite than the phrase currently in vogue.

BTW, with your assessment of the dog situation.

[Doug.38PR]

So this animal has a history of attacking other leashed animals?

That's not what I said

Good grief. People try to shoot down my arguments by saying "they are a bunch of may-have-happens" scenarios...but then try to give validity to their arguments by giving a may-have-happens scenario of their own: "It wouldn't have happened if your dog had been on a leash." and then ignoring my point that YES IT COULD HAVE happened even on a leash. I take it none of you in here have ever walked their dog through the neighborhood and come across others walking their dogs. They sniff, the wrestle a little, they might try to jump on each other for fun, but it's play...especially if they are puppies. Unless you are some macho-junkie-creep that breeds fighting dogs, you understand this.

Look folks,
leash laws are city laws that were put in place in urban areas for the purpose of keeping hostile dogs from biting and attacking people, poo pooing on people's yards, getting loose and tearing through the trash. They were not so smaller harmless dogs could be kept out of the way of vicious fighting dogs that macho punks use to strut around the neighborhood with. Was I in violation of this? YES. My experiences with dogs has been in the country where people by-and-large let their dog's run free and are enjoyed by the neighbors. Never thought about a leash law.

BTW, as I have said, the peace officers involved in this said I was technically in violation of the leash law, but these guys FAILED TO CONTROL THEIR ANIMAL. The screaming hysterical guy on the scene made no effort to help seperate the dog. The owners let two guys who didn't know how to handle Pitbulls walk through the neighborood. All of which is frowned upon by peace officers and neighbors.

I don't mind keeping my dog on a leash, I did it before this happen and I do it after it happened especially that I know that it is a law.

[SlowDave]

Not to pile on but... I'm gonna agree that your dog should have been on the leash. I believe that the incident would not have happened if your dog was on the leash, because you could have separated them immediately when things started to turn aggressive until not having a chance until your dog was in the death hold.

But it really doesn't matter. If I'm speeding and then get involved in a crash, it doesn't really matter if the crash wasn't caused by my excessive speed, I'm gonna take at least a chunk if not all of the rap. Same deal here. You can't be guilty of breaking a law, get involved in a situation related to it, and then say it's the other guy's fault. Like it or not, that's the system.

p.s. I consider people letting their dog get within leash reach of my dog when they're both on a walk as being extremely inconsiderate and troublesome. There is no need for that and I wouldn't tolerate it. You might be unlucky enough to run into other weird/rude dog owners like myself. If you've noticed, if dogs never get within reach of each other, they NEVER get hold of each other's throats and try to kill one another.

[Doug.38PR]

And Doug, I want to point out that you made some statements in your post that indicate how angry you still were about the incident. Well, emotionally invested maybe instead of angry.

Well I'm not happy about it. I wouldn't be on here talking about it except to discuss a tactical CCW situation that could potentially develop into use of CCW. It's over, dad's thumb is mending, my dog goes out on a leash now, haven't seen those guys or their dogs since, no charges have been pressed by me, dad or the police on either side.

The statements like calling the pit a "large fighting dog" are what I mean. The dog may never have been taught to fight or may indeed be a true fighter.

Well the Pit was sure making a good show of it if he never was taught (genetic maybe?). My dog was no threat to it and every other dog he comes into contact with within and without the neighborhood recognizes him as a playmate upon contact. The owners claimed that the Pit has never acted like that before. But complaints have been made about the dog in the past. And Pit Bulls are notorious fighting dogs.

We don't know about that part. I know some pits that are as gentle as can be since they were raised that way. Take a little time and then come back to this and look at the thread from an outsider's point of view. It may help you understand the other posts a little better.

Well before this incident happened, I might have agreed with you about Pit Bulls. I think even Ceaser Milan even claims their are otherwise as safe as any other dog. But...they are bred fighting dogs and I don't know if it is genetic or not...but this dog is unpredictable to say the least. Pitbulls are notorious. I went to the dog park in Katy the other day with my dog and spotted a lost dog sign posted. I always grieve when I see that, then I see it is a pitbull...the owner claimed that it is a gentle dog and the kids "miss their puppy." I'd like to believe that, but now....I'm sorry. During the struggle I didn't even realize the dog was a Pitbull...just another dog with an owner who, I thought, might love it and didn't want to have to kill it. Afterwards, certain things were pointed out to me about pitbulls...I confess my sympanthy has diminished.

[flb_78]

Look folks,
leash laws are city laws that were put in place in urban areas for the purpose of keeping hostile dogs from biting and attacking people, poo pooing on people's yards, getting loose and tearing through the trash. They were not so smaller harmless dogs could be kept out of the way of vicious fighting dogs that macho punks use to strut around the neighborhood with. Was I in violation of this? YES. My experiences with dogs has been in the country where people by-and-large let their dog's run free and are enjoyed by the neighbors. Never thought about a leash law.

BTW, as I have said, the peace officers involved in this said I was technically in violation of the leash law, but these guys FAILED TO CONTROL THEIR ANIMAL. The screaming hysterical guy on the scene made no effort to help seperate the dog. The owners let two guys who didn't know how to handle Pitbulls walk through the neighborood. All of which is frowned upon by peace officers and neighbors.

I don't mind keeping my dog on a leash, I did it before this happen and I do it after it happened especially that I know that it is a law.

Leash laws are so that people can control their animals. If the animal is not on a leash or inside a fenced property, then it's not being controlled by it's owner.

Sorry Steve, I have to disagree. If some unknown dog comes running out and jumps on my dog and my dog defends itself, the owner of the unleashed dog has no legal right to shoot my dog and I would most likely take action to defend my leashed animal's life.

smaller harmless dogs

No such thing, all dogs are capable of inflicting injury, no matter the size.

[Doug.38PR]

p.s. I consider people letting their dog get within leash reach of my dog when they're both on a walk as being extremely inconsiderate and troublesome. There is no need for that and I wouldn't tolerate it. You might be unlucky enough to run into other weird/rude dog owners like myself. If you've noticed, if dogs never get within reach of each other, they NEVER get hold of each other's throats and try to kill one another.

I guess we live in different kinds of neighborhoods. Where I come from, having your dog come into contact and reach another is considered fun, frisky and playful. People around here commonly do it. In fact, like I said, those guys did it with their Pit Bulls until this incident anyway. I even came into contact with them once before. They showed no agressive behavior...that time...but they WERE in full contact and could easily have snatched my dog by the neck or any other dog being walked out there.

[Doug.38PR]

Doug,

It seems that you've had a run of bad luck lately: first your megachurch and now your puppy. Maybe you do need a change of scenery?

Good luck and God Bless.

Not me. My dad. He's the 65 year old gentleman I refer to in that thread (if y'all haven't already figured that out). He's the one hassled by the guard. He's the one that almost got his thumb bit off by a Pitbull

[Right2Carry]

I think everyone in the thread so far, including Doug, has agreed that he is at least partly at fault for his dog not being leashed. I am not clear where the attack occurred, so I am not sure how much this really makes a difference in the case. If the dog was unleashed on his front lawn and the other dog was being walked in the neighborhood on a leash it might be different from if they were at a park and one dog was leashed and the other was not. I do recommend always having the dog leashed if it is not inside the house, but unleashed in your own yard is different from unleashed in a park, at least to me.

And Doug, I want to point out that you made some statements in your post that indicate how angry you still were about the incident. Well, emotionally invested maybe instead of angry. The statements like calling the pit a "large fighting dog" are what I mean. The dog may never have been taught to fight or may indeed be a true fighter. We don't know about that part. I know some pits that are as gentle as can be since they were raised that way. Take a little time and then come back to this and look at the thread from an outsider's point of view. It may help you understand the other posts a little better.

And finally, I just wanted to point out section Sec. 822.013 of the Health and Safety Code. As you can see below, it clearly would have allowed you to shoot the pit.

DOGS OR COYOTES THAT ATTACK ANIMALS. (a) A dog or coyote that is attacking, is about to attack, or has recently attacked livestock, domestic animals, or fowls may be killed by:
(1) any person witnessing the attack; or
(2) the attacked animal's owner or a person acting on behalf of the owner if the owner or person has knowledge of the attack.

So, I think the two cops you talked to were both correct and gave you good advice. You could have shot the pit but you still would have been civilly liable for any missed shots and where they went. In this case, not shooting might have been a good idea. It worked out as best as could be expected, anyway.

I can't agree with this interpretation of the law. Doug's dog was clearly unleashed and in violation of the law. The other dog sees what appears to be a hostile dog approaching and decides to protect itself and it's owner. As long as the other dog was on a leash, Doug was in the wrong and if he had shot the pit bull I think he would be liable. I believe most leash laws state that if the dog is not in a fenced in area they must be on a leash regardless of whether they are on their own property or not. If the dog is in the front yard and it's not fenced, it must be on a leash at least in my city anyway, YMMV.

I don't think the code would apply in Doug's situation since his dog was the aggressor whether he wants to believe that or not.