On school premises

[mez1st]

Does anyone have any clarification of PC 46.11 - "PENALTY IF OFFENSE COMMllTED WITHIN WEAPON-FREE SCHOOLZONE." When I go to the school to pick up my kids, am I violating this rule? Does the 300 feet included the parking lot? Our school has a drive way in front for pick up, but frequently I have to go in the school to find the kids. I normally stow the handgun in the vehicle while I go inside, but is having it in the vehicle still a violation? Our school has a "Gun free zone" sign on the entrance, but no sign as you enter the parking lot.

Also, what about Post Offices? Are they considered government building? I was always told that they are not, but have recently heard otherwise.

[Keith B]

Does anyone have any clarification of PC 46.11 - "PENALTY IF OFFENSE COMMllTED WITHIN WEAPON-FREE SCHOOLZONE." When I go to the school to pick up my kids, am I violating this rule? Does the 300 feet included the parking lot? Our school has a drive way in front for pick up, but frequently I have to go in the school to find the kids. I normally stow the handgun in the vehicle while I go inside, but is having it in the vehicle still a violation? Our school has a "Gun free zone" sign on the entrance, but no sign as you enter the parking lot.

Also, what about Post Offices? Are they considered government building? I was always told that they are not, but have recently heard otherwise.

This should have been taught in your CHL class. In Texas, if you are a Texas resident with a Texas issued CHL you are exempt from the Federal Gun Free School Zone. In the statutes, premise is defined as the building or any portion of. School grounds is OK outside unless a school sponsored activity is being conducted. This includes the parking lot and in your vehicle WITH a CHL. The new Motorist Protection Act does not exempt you.

Your statement 'I normally stow the handgun in the vehicle while I go inside,...." bothers me. If you go into a school building armed, you are in violation unless you have permission to carry by the administration.

As for Post Offices, there is a VERY long thread here that may help you out. Lots of discussion http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... =7&t=17559" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Hi Plainsman]

Pardon my ignorance, because I have not taken my CHL as of yet, so I haven't recieved the class room discussion of this rule. But can anyone provide legal defense for carrying inside of the "Gun Free Zone?" I understand the Texas Penal Code description of "Premises," but I question if this supercedes or replaces the federal statute. I've not been able to find any arguments supporting that.

This also came up just last week on a hunting forum i frequent.

[TexasComputerDude]

so a non-chl can't leave a handgun in their car while going into a school?

[hirundo82]

Does anyone have any clarification of PC 46.11 - "PENALTY IF OFFENSE COMMllTED WITHIN WEAPON-FREE SCHOOLZONE." When I go to the school to pick up my kids, am I violating this rule? Does the 300 feet included the parking lot? Our school has a drive way in front for pick up, but frequently I have to go in the school to find the kids. I normally stow the handgun in the vehicle while I go inside, but is having it in the vehicle still a violation? Our school has a "Gun free zone" sign on the entrance, but no sign as you enter the parking lot.

If you read the text of Section 46.11, it does not criminalize possession of weapons within school zones but rather provides an "enhancement" to the penalty for any violation of Chapter 46 that is committed within 300 feet of a school. There is therefore no problem under state law since there is an exception to Section 46.02 for carring in a vehicle under your control, as well as the exception in 46.15 for CHL holders.

so a non-chl can't leave a handgun in their car while going into a school?

It is a violation of the (federal) "Gun-Free School Zones Act of 1995" [18 USC 922(q)]t o have an accessible firearm within 1000 feet of a school (defined as a primary or secondary school). There is an exception for holders of a license issued by the state in which the school is located--someone carrying on a Florida license in Texas would not be exempt. The law is of dubious constitutionality as a previous version was struck down by the Supreme Court (in US v. Lopez) as violating the commerce clause, and is rarely prosecuted but is still on the books.

[UpTheIrons]

According to the law, school driveways and parking lots are not specifically "school property." They are public streets. We went over this again and again in our class. If you are driving up to the school to pick up your kids in the 'car pickup line,' and you are in the driveway in your car, you are not in violation of the law.

There was a big blow-up in San Antonio a few months ago where a teacher was caught smoking pot in her car. She also had a gun in her car. It was against school policy to have a gun in the parking lot, but not against state law. She was penalized because she was a staff member who violated school policy. Average School Parent who drives up to pick up Average School Student would not be covered by the employment policy, so keep it strapped on, as long as you do not enter the building.

[ClarkLZeuss]

I have a CHL and go to a University nearly every day and park in a parking garage which is accessed by either a hang-tag or pay-by-hour ticket (but I'm not a student or staff, just basically a volunteer). Is a parking garage considered the same as a parking lot, or is it considered "premise" (school building)? My plan would be to lock my gun in my car.

A second question I have: what "school related functions" (or whatever the language is) would prevent me from even having a gun in my car just driving through campus? If there's a collegiate sports game on campus that day, can I not even have a gun in my car, because I'd be within 1000 feet of it?

[dmac]

I am a public school teacher and CHL. I have asked several campus/district police this same question. They all say the same thing; it would not be illegal for me, as an employee, to keep a gun in my car in the parking lot. The term "premisis" excludes parking lots. They have said that it might be a violation of my employee agreement, but the wording there is the same as in the law, so my defense would be that the term premisis means the same there as well. I was at a school a few years ago where a shotgun was found in a students car. He had forgotten it after a hunting trip...no charges filed.

BTW...I keep my gun in a safe bolted to the floorboard under a mat...totally out of site.

[hheremtp]

I have a CHL and go to a University nearly every day and park in a parking garage which is accessed by either a hang-tag or pay-by-hour ticket (but I'm not a student or staff, just basically a volunteer). Is a parking garage considered the same as a parking lot, or is it considered "premise" (school building)? My plan would be to lock my gun in my car.

A second question I have: what "school related functions" (or whatever the language is) would prevent me from even having a gun in my car just driving through campus? If there's a collegiate sports game on campus that day, can I not even have a gun in my car, because I'd be within 1000 feet of it?

ClarkLZeuss,

The second part of your question would apply to ANY function that was sponsered by the school, IMHO that would mean any game or other function that was sanctioned by the school. example, a school sactioned club holds a bake sale after school as a fund raiser, that would probably qualify as school related function and at that point you would not be able to carry even in the parking lot because the parking lot is considered the "grounds" which is different than "premisis".

basically NO you can not have your gun with you.
However I am not a lawyer and I could be wrong, that's just how I interperet what is written

[ClarkLZeuss]

Thanks, guys, for the input. I called the campus police who told me that as long as my car was locked and the weapon was concealed, it was OK. I asked if this was in writing anywhere, and they said it's in the Texas Education Code. Anyone know the relevant section? The annoying thing, though, is that on the University police website it says something opposite: "Current law prohibits the possession of all firearms on the premises of an educational institution...A weapon in your vehicle constitutes possession for the purposes of the policy." But is that even a legal/enforceable policy? I don't want to break any laws, but at the same time I want to know what my legal rights are.

As far as the 1,000 ft from grounds thing, I'll have to ask them about that, too. Can someone please reference the section that's in, too?

Thanks again,
Clark