A Couple beers

[atxgun]

The way it was explained to me is that it is illegal to carry while intoxicated and there is no legal limit on the books with respect to carrying -- just the word intoxicated. The no legal limit means, unlike getting pulled over and blowing a 0.03, that could really bite you if you're carrying.

I agree with the statements he should not be carrying if he plans to drink and he should not be drinking while carrying.

However if he likes to have a beer after work that's completely his business and there's nothing wrong with it. Of course if that's his routine I don't see how he'd have much chance to carry.

I'm having a beer as write this -- but I'm home and will be remaining here for the evening.

[NcongruNt]

Just so we're clear on this:

46.035(d) :

(d) A license holder commits an offense if, while intoxicated, the
license holder carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H,
Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is
concealed.

GC 411.171

GC 411.171. DEFINITIONS. In this subchapter:
(1) "Action" means single action, revolver. or semi-automatic
action.
(2) "Chemically dependent person" means a person who
frequently or repeatedly becomes intoxicated by excessive indulgence
in alcohol or uses controlled substances or danaerous druas so as to
acquire a fixed habit and an involuntary tendency to be&me intoxi-
cated or use those substances as often as the opportunity is
presented.
(3) "Concealed handgun" means a handgun, the presence of
which is not openly discernible to the ordinary observation of a reason-
able person.
(4) "Convicted" means an adjudication of guilt or , except as
provided in Section 411.1711, an, order of deferred adjudication
entered against a person by a court of competent jurisdiction whether
or not the imposition of the sentence is subsequently probated and
the person is discharged from community supervision. The term does
not include an adjudication of guilt or an order of deferred adjudication
that has been subsequently:
(A) expunged; or
(8) pardoned under the authority of a state or federal official.
(4-a) "Federal judge" means:
(A) a judge of a United States court of appeals;
(8) a judge of a United States district court;
(C) a judge of a United States bankruptcy court; or (D) a mag-
istrate judge of a United States district court.
(4-b) "State judge" means:
(A) the judge of an appellate court, a district court, or a county
court at law of this state; or
(B) an associate judge appointed under Chapter 201, Family
Code.
(5) "Handgunn has the meaning assigned by Section 46.01,
Penal Code.
(6) "Intoxicated" has the meaning assigned by Section 49.01,
Penal Code.
(7) "Qualified handgun instructof means a person who is certi-
fied to instruct in the use of handguns by the department.
(8) ' '[mpealedbyAds 1999,76VI Leg.. ch. 62, Seclion 9.02.1

49.01:

Sec. 49.01. DEFINITIONS. In this chapter:

(1) "Alcohol concentration" means the number of grams of alcohol per:
(A) 210 liters of breath;
(B) 100 milliliters of blood; or
(C) 67 milliliters of urine.
(2) "Intoxicated" means:
(A) not having the normal use of mental or physical faculties by reason of the introduction of alcohol, a controlled substance, a drug, a dangerous drug, a combination of two or more of those substances, or any other substance into the body; or
(B) having an alcohol concentration of 0.08 or more.
(3) "Motor vehicle" has the meaning assigned by Section 32.34(a).
(4) "Watercraft" means a vessel, one or more water skis, an aquaplane, or another device used for transporting or carrying a person on water, other than a device propelled only by the current of water.
(5) "Amusement ride" has the meaning assigned by Section 2151.002, Occupations Code.
(6) "Mobile amusement ride" has the meaning assigned by Section 2151.002, Occupations Code.

It is the same standard as driving.

[KRM45]

I always have a gun in a lock box under the seat of my vehicle. It's not my carry gun, but I would not choose to leave it at home for any reason.

I do not give up my right to self defense simply because I visit a prohibited place, or if I choose to drink alcohol. I don't drink, so perhaps I can't relate to the choice, but it bothers me to see so many people talk about a zero tolerance.

I would even go so far as to say if the gun is locked in a case he is not carrying it under the authority of his CHL. I don't believe that would meet the definition of "on or about his person."

[boomerang]

I'm going to have to disagree with your disagreement ( ). I still don't want a gun anywhere around me.

That's your choice. Having a CHL does not require you to carry everywhere. You don't even have to own a gun at all. I have no desire to force anyone to carry a gun and I don't appreciate people who try to infringe my right to keep and bear arms.

Hence why I am against allowing CHL'ers to carry into bars. *flame shield up*

I'm in favor of the same carry laws applying to an OBGYN with a CHL, an ADA with a CHL, a special investigator on or off duty, and a Texas peace officer not engaged in the actual discharge of the officer's duties.

[KFP]

Just so we're clear on this:

46.035(d) :

(d) A license holder commits an offense if, while intoxicated, the
license holder carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H,
Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is
concealed.

GC 411.171

GC 411.171. DEFINITIONS. In this subchapter:
(1) "Action" means single action, revolver. or semi-automatic
action.
(2) "Chemically dependent person" means a person who
frequently or repeatedly becomes intoxicated by excessive indulgence
in alcohol or uses controlled substances or danaerous druas so as to
acquire a fixed habit and an involuntary tendency to be&me intoxi-
cated or use those substances as often as the opportunity is
presented.
(3) "Concealed handgun" means a handgun, the presence of
which is not openly discernible to the ordinary observation of a reason-
able person.
(4) "Convicted" means an adjudication of guilt or , except as
provided in Section 411.1711, an, order of deferred adjudication
entered against a person by a court of competent jurisdiction whether
or not the imposition of the sentence is subsequently probated and
the person is discharged from community supervision. The term does
not include an adjudication of guilt or an order of deferred adjudication
that has been subsequently:
(A) expunged; or
(8) pardoned under the authority of a state or federal official.
(4-a) "Federal judge" means:
(A) a judge of a United States court of appeals;
(8) a judge of a United States district court;
(C) a judge of a United States bankruptcy court; or (D) a mag-
istrate judge of a United States district court.
(4-b) "State judge" means:
(A) the judge of an appellate court, a district court, or a county
court at law of this state; or
(B) an associate judge appointed under Chapter 201, Family
Code.
(5) "Handgunn has the meaning assigned by Section 46.01,
Penal Code.
(6) "Intoxicated" has the meaning assigned by Section 49.01,
Penal Code.
(7) "Qualified handgun instructof means a person who is certi-
fied to instruct in the use of handguns by the department.
(8) ' '[mpealedbyAds 1999,76VI Leg.. ch. 62, Seclion 9.02.1

49.01:

Sec. 49.01. DEFINITIONS. In this chapter:

(1) "Alcohol concentration" means the number of grams of alcohol per:
(A) 210 liters of breath;
(B) 100 milliliters of blood; or
(C) 67 milliliters of urine.
(2) "Intoxicated" means:
(A) not having the normal use of mental or physical faculties by reason of the introduction of alcohol, a controlled substance, a drug, a dangerous drug, a combination of two or more of those substances, or any other substance into the body; or
(B) having an alcohol concentration of 0.08 or more.
(3) "Motor vehicle" has the meaning assigned by Section 32.34(a).
(4) "Watercraft" means a vessel, one or more water skis, an aquaplane, or another device used for transporting or carrying a person on water, other than a device propelled only by the current of water.
(5) "Amusement ride" has the meaning assigned by Section 2151.002, Occupations Code.
(6) "Mobile amusement ride" has the meaning assigned by Section 2151.002, Occupations Code.

It is the same standard as driving.

While I wouldn't want to be the test case for this, I agree. I've always found it interesting that when this topic comes up, the FAQ section from the DPS handbook isn't quoted. Obviously, it is an "interpretation," but it seems to support the argument above:

Can I carry a handgun if I am drinking alcohol?

"Carrying" while drinking is not prohibited, but it is a criminal offense to carry while intoxicated.

[boomerang]

While I wouldn't want to be the test case for this, I agree. I've always found it interesting that when this topic comes up, the FAQ section from the DPS handbook isn't quoted. Obviously, it is an "interpretation," but it seems to support the argument above:

Can I carry a handgun if I am drinking alcohol?

"Carrying" while drinking is not prohibited, but it is a criminal offense to carry while intoxicated.

Only if you have a CHL.

Suppose A & B go to a bar in B's car. They disarm and go inside. They listen to the band. A is the designated driver and has softdrinks. B has a few beers and becomes mildly intoxicated. After the show they return to the car. They rearm without failing to conceal. A drives them home.

If B does not have a CHL it looks like that's legal.

[Jeff B.]

At my current point in life, I beleive that alcohol and guns do not mix well (OK, at all).

I will however admit that a long time back, I engaged in many a Saturday of trap shooting at an old sand pit with a case of beer and a few buddies. Our good fortune was that we were all ex-military in college and ran our firing point like a range, no fooling around and the "drinking" in context was more like sipping. The other thing was that times were different 25 or 30 years back. I recall one time a Fish & Game Officer drove up and commented on my shooting, which I think was his subtle way of telling us he had been watching us... and drove off. Those days are gone.

Anyone apprehended for some suspicion of intoxication (or suspicion of being so) that is armed is in for a tough time.

We are fond of mentioning situational awareness. This circumstance falls under that umbrella.

Jeff B.

[03Lightningrocks]

To each his own but if I am going to have a drink...even one, i don't carry. My concern is not so much for getting drunk as it is for having to use my handgun and then getting accused of being drunk.

We have a "no alcohol" policy at the deer lease also. We don't even want it there. Drinking and guns DON'T mix.

[anygunanywhere]

I have always agreed with the idea of an occasional glass of wine, drink, or beer with a meal while carrying. I do it. Wine only.

IMHO and some are going to disagree with me, but if an individual has the habit of stopping for a few on the way home then they have issues with dependency. I grew up with parents who were alcoholics. Mrs. Anygun's father was too. We know what it is like to live with individuals who must stop on the way home from work and have a few.

I am not anti-drinking. I am for the responsible use of alcohol and the responsible use of firearms. I still hold that if you have to ask then you have a problem.

Anygunanywhere

[WildBill]

IMHO and some are going to disagree with me, but if an individual has the habit of stopping for a few on the way home then they have issues with dependency. I grew up with parents who were alcoholics. Mrs. Anygun's father was too. We know what it is like to live with individuals who must stop on the way home from work and have a few.

I am not anti-drinking. I am for the responsible use of alcohol and the responsible use of firearms. I still hold that if you have to ask then you have a problem.

Anygunanywhere

Alcohol seems to effect some people's ability to count. For many drinkers, going to a bar for "a beer or two" or "having a few beers" means having six or more drinks.

[DoubleJ]

I think the real question here is: What is the definition of "one or two beers?"

In my experience, in the experience of my Ambulance Driver Friends, and in the experience of my Cop Buddies, the One or Two Beers usually equals a six-pack (or more), or enough to take the proverbial "edge" off. I think you'd be hard pressed to pass a sobriety test under heavy scrutiny, and you're judgment is going to be skewed just a tad.

you may be able to make it home every night, as long as no major surprises pop up, but I wouldn't want to have to make crucial life or death decisions under those circumstances, IIWU.

[Armybrat]

Since the post about my visit to Pat O'Brien's (San Antonio) on the 1911 and Ruger boards undoubtedly inspired this thread, I'll reiterate:
I don't consider having one drink with my restaurant dinner once in a while as "going out and drinking". Apparently some of the teetotalers equate that with pub-crawling or fratboy binge drinking - which I NEVER do. I know what the law says, and it does not say "no drinking at all when carrying"....or driving, for that matter. (I wasn't driving in my case).

My original concern was the placement of the 51% sign at that Pat O'Brien's.


But hey, beat up on me all you like.

[The Annoyed Man]

Like NcongruNt, I take the moderated approach. I rarely drink, even at home. I've had the same sixpack of beer in my fridge for the past 6 or 7 months, and I think 4 of them are still left. I have a liquor cabinet with a couple of different bottles that will literally last me for years. That being said, on rare occasion, I will choose to have an aperitif before dinner in a restaurant, or perhaps a glass of wine with some french or italian food. . . . and I carry in those situations. For a guy my size, when consumed with a meal, one drink is not even going to be noticed - either to measurably affect my motor skills or to impair my judgement.

That being said, I have the following reactions to the OP:

My son is getting ready to take a CHL class. As he has a habit of stopping for a beer or two I mentioned that would have to stop when he is carry.

If he does this habitually, then he has a problem that needs to be addressed. Doing it once in a while is a non-issue; but if he does it every day, then he should be re-examining his priorities - and possibly even seeking help if it is not something he can stop. If that is the case, then he should not carry. Period. In fact, he would be in violation of that part of the CHL law which says you cannot be dependent on alcohol.

He then asked a couple questions

If he locks the gun in a lock box under the trucks seat would that be legal?
I told him no but I would ask around to be sure

Normally, yes. If he has been drinking, possibly not (because that implies that he is also driving as well), but I'm not a lawyer.

Does the no alcohol apply to having a gun in the truck if you are not a CHL holder?
This one I do not know

Depends. . . . Is the container open or not, and is he intoxicated or not? As far as I know, there is no reason that you cannot stop at a liquor store, pickup a 6 pack for home consumption, and then drive home with it if you have a gun in your car. OTH, if you have been consuming alcohol and driving with a gun in the car, your bigger problem is that you may be driving under the influence. The presence of the gun is a secondary issue - particularly if it were legal for you to have it in your car in the first place.

But I repeat again, I am not a lawyer and don't claim to be an expert. My answers were based entirely on what I believe to be right and wrong behavior.

[Keith B]

Since the post about my visit to Pat O'Brien's (San Antonio) on the 1911 and Ruger boards undoubtedly inspired this thread, I'll reiterate:
I don't consider having one drink with my restaurant dinner once in a while as "going out and drinking". Apparently some of the teetotalers equate that with pub-crawling or fratboy binge drinking - which I NEVER do. I know what the law says, and it does not say "no drinking at all when carrying"....or driving, for that matter. (I wasn't driving in my case).

My original concern was the placement of the 51% sign at that Pat O'Brien's.


But hey, beat up on me all you like.

Unless you are bkj's son, I am not sure how you see this as being about your post?

We have had various opinions on the one or two beers question over and over again on this forum. There will never be an agreement by all members. The fact is some folks can have two beers and be buzzed, while others it may take a 3-4 or more. Now, while 2 beers in an hour may not make you .08, it could possibly be impairing you. That is different per individual. My wife doesn't drink, is a small person, and one beer or glass of wine WOULD impair her. Me on the other hand, as a 'beer every once in awhile guy' and a larger person, it doesn't impair me with just one.

The biggest issue is if you are stopped and have been drinking, it is up to the officers discretion as to if you are impaired. If he feels there is probable cause to show you were impaired, then you could potentially have a CUI charge to challenge. It also doesn't have to be booze. Right now, I won't carry because I am fighting a cold and I can tell you the medication is impairing me.

So, we are all adults (or should be) and when making the call, you need to take a lot of factors into consideration before you do or don't.

Just my 2¢.