...on the extractor. Pistols with an internal extractor (like the 1911 and its clones) should NEVER be loaded directly into the tube. You'll damage the extractor. However, pistols with an external extractor (e.g., Berettas) are made for it. The owners manuals for both my Berettas (Model 9000S 9mm and Model 84 .380) give instructions to lock open the slide and load the round directly into the tube, then insert the loaded magazine. I have noticed that the 9000S has trouble going fully into battery when I do it. I allow the slide to go forward a bit, then point the barrel skyward. The round falls partially out of the chamber, then the slide easily moves up into battery, carrying the round with it. The Model 84 just glides shut, no problem at all. Saves my fingers, not having to add another round to the magazine every time.
Some folks seem to believe that there are only Glocks or 1911s in this world.
Ruger also includes instructions in their P95 manual on loading the gun from the top directly into the chamber to use in single shot mode. Ruger happens to have a lifetime warranty, I really don't believe Ruger would be giving out this advice if it would break their guns.
Beretta makes several .22 through .380 caliber pistols with barrels that tip up specifically to allow a round to be loaded directly into the chamber. These are the exception and not the rule. Most guns can be loaded by dropping a round into the chamber and closing the slide behind that round. Some manuals even suggest doing so but, I generally don't advise it unless I'm dealing specifically with the Beretta pistols mentioned above. Your statement implied all pistols with external extractors are made for this practice. That is simply not true.
Glocks, Sigs and Smith M&P pistols all external extractors as do many 1911's these days. Now, I have spent enough time repairing failed extractors guns from every major manufacturer to recognize excess wear from the practice of dropping around in the chamber and letting the slide slam home. I've also put more than 1million rounds down range at this point in my life and retired more than a few handguns for everything from cracked frames and slides to shot out barrels. I am under no illusion that Glocks and 1911's are the only guns around. Still, as an instructor I continue to teach people to load from their magazines because it works on nearly all pistols. Whether or not they want to top off the magazine with a "Barney bullet," is entirely up to them. I've given up on the practice but, I also routinely carry two spare magazines so I'm not going to miss one cartridge.
When you take the time out of your day to beat someone, it has a much longer lasting effect on their demeanor than simply shooting or tazing them.
It depends on the gun, guns with controlled feeding, i.e. 1911, can be damaged ( extractor ) if the round is not fed out of the magazine. Controlled feeding is where the round slips up behind the extractor as it comes up out of the mgazine, which is how the 1911 was designed. The extractor was not designed to snap over the rim of the cartridge. On other guns, like the Beretta 92's the extractor is spring loaded and is designed to snap over the rim of the cartridge. The idea of controlled feeding originally came from the bolt action mauser, because the round was grasped by the extractor as it came out of the magazine, it kept a panicked soldier from trying to ram a round into an already loaded chamber.
G.C.Montgomery wrote:Glocks, Sigs and Smith M&P pistols all external extractors as do many 1911's these days. Now, I have spent enough time repairing failed extractors guns from every major manufacturer to recognize excess wear from the practice of dropping around in the chamber and letting the slide slam home.
How can you tell the difference in excess wear between feeding a round through the magazine and "letting the slide slam home"?
...on the extractor. Pistols with an internal extractor (like the 1911 and its clones) should NEVER be loaded directly into the tube. You'll damage the extractor. However, pistols with an external extractor (e.g., Berettas) are made for it. The owners manuals for both my Berettas (Model 9000S 9mm and Model 84 .380) give instructions to lock open the slide and load the round directly into the tube, then insert the loaded magazine. I have noticed that the 9000S has trouble going fully into battery when I do it. I allow the slide to go forward a bit, then point the barrel skyward. The round falls partially out of the chamber, then the slide easily moves up into battery, carrying the round with it. The Model 84 just glides shut, no problem at all. Saves my fingers, not having to add another round to the magazine every time.
Some folks seem to believe that there are only Glocks or 1911s in this world.
Ruger also includes instructions in their P95 manual on loading the gun from the top directly into the chamber to use in single shot mode. Ruger happens to have a lifetime warranty, I really don't believe Ruger would be giving out this advice if it would break their guns.
Beretta makes several .22 through .380 caliber pistols with barrels that tip up specifically to allow a round to be loaded directly into the chamber. These are the exception and not the rule. Most guns can be loaded by dropping a round into the chamber and closing the slide behind that round. Some manuals even suggest doing so but, I generally don't advise it unless I'm dealing specifically with the Beretta pistols mentioned above. Your statement implied all pistols with external extractors are made for this practice. That is simply not true.
Glocks, Sigs and Smith M&P pistols all external extractors as do many 1911's these days. Now, I have spent enough time repairing failed extractors guns from every major manufacturer to recognize excess wear from the practice of dropping around in the chamber and letting the slide slam home. I've also put more than 1million rounds down range at this point in my life and retired more than a few handguns for everything from cracked frames and slides to shot out barrels. I am under no illusion that Glocks and 1911's are the only guns around. Still, as an instructor I continue to teach people to load from their magazines because it works on nearly all pistols. Whether or not they want to top off the magazine with a "Barney bullet," is entirely up to them. I've given up on the practice but, I also routinely carry two spare magazines so I'm not going to miss one cartridge.
I thought I was pretty specific in that manuals for the Ruger 92 and the Beretta P95 indicated that the practice was alright. I didn't intend to suggest that it is OK for every other gun. I thought I was suggesting that the manufacturer would offer the best guidance. I never even mentioned external extractors. just the specific guns. I am sure there are are other guns but the 95 and P92 are what I have manuals for. I really don't recommend the practice even for the guns that have the manufacturers approval, but then again with 15 round mags and carrying spares I also don't see the point.
Hope your having a good Christmas.
Liberty''s Blog
"Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom." John F. Kennedy
I know that G.C. has shot more than a million rounds, but I go to the range about 20 times a year to practice with my carry piece. So, I top it off to +1, twenty times per year. If that is going to damage my extractor, maybe I should look at a different gun manufacturer. Even if I reloaded every day there shouldn't be that much wear. There are many metal alloys and heat treatments available to gun makers.
WildBill wrote:I know that G.C. has shot more than a million rounds, but I go to the range about 20 times a year to practice with my carry piece. So, I top it off to +1, twenty times per year. If that is going to damage my extractor, maybe I should look at a different gun manufacturer. Even if I reloaded every day there shouldn't be that much wear. There are many metal alloys and heat treatments available to gun makers.
He isn't claiming that traditional +1 loading is bad. Just that loading the +1 directly into chamber and the following slide drop isn't a good thing. Loading the mag, then racking removing the mag and loading one more into the mag shouldn't hurt anything.
We differ in that I claim its OK on some specific guns. He doesn't like the practice much at all except on small caliber tip up guns. YMMV I suggest RTFM (Reading The Fine Manual)
Liberty''s Blog
"Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom." John F. Kennedy
WildBill wrote:I know that G.C. has shot more than a million rounds, but I go to the range about 20 times a year to practice with my carry piece. So, I top it off to +1, twenty times per year. If that is going to damage my extractor, maybe I should look at a different gun manufacturer. Even if I reloaded every day there shouldn't be that much wear. There are many metal alloys and heat treatments available to gun makers.
He isn't claiming that traditional +1 loading is bad. Just that loading the +1 directly into chamber and the following slide drop isn't a good thing. Loading the mag, then racking removing the mag and loading one more into the mag shouldn't hurt anything.
I understand what G.C. is saying. I am just being argumentative.
