Parking Versus Standing

[tbranch]

Ran into a good one today. Pulled up to the school to get the kids. There was a line as usual. The street is marked, "No Parking, Standing, or Stopping" so I pulled into the parking lot and waited for the children to arrive. A local officer knocked on the window and asked for my license. I gave him the license and CHL--no issues. Comes back and Issues me a ticket for parking in a fire lane, picks up his kid, and drives off in his cruiser. I noted the curb states, "Fire Lane - No Parking" but no mention of standing or stopping like the street in front of the school. The ticket is $167 and I'm considering fighting it since the curb was marked, "No Parking" with no mention of standing or stopping.

No issues with the CHL (edit--I was not carrying at the time but provided the CHL), but the ticket seems wrong...

Tom

[flechero]

There's probably a technicality there but I think I'd fight it just out of principal. Furthermore, if he was picking up his child from school in his cruiser, he was (or should have been) off duty... and if he wasn't, I'd like a few tax dollars refunded.

[Keith B]

Here is teh Muni Code for your city. It refernces V.T.C.A., Transportation Code § 545.301 et seq, and 545.302 addresses this, which I have included below. I think you may be able to fight this one per the highlighted section in the VTCA as it refernces temporarily loading or unloading passengers in a no-parking area (see the highlighted section.) BUT, as always IANAL.

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ARTICLE IX. STOPPING, STANDING AND PARKING GENERALLY*
__________
*State law references: Stopping, standing and parking, V.T.C.A., Transportation Code § 545.301 et seq.
__________
Muni Code

DIVISION 1. GENERALLY

Sec. 9-221. Obedience to signs.
A person commits an offense if, as the operator of a vehicle, he parks, stops or stands the vehicle in violation of an official sign, curb marking or street marking prohibiting, regulating or restricting the parking, stopping or standing of a vehicle.
(Ord. No. 259, § 1-68, 4-5-1968)

Also:

Sec. 9-228. Stopping, standing or parking prohibited in specified places.
No person shall stop, stand or park a vehicle except when necessary to avoid conflict with other traffic or in compliance with law or directions of a police officer or traffic control device in any of the following places:
(1) On a sidewalk;
(2) In front of a public or private driveway;
(3) Within an intersection;
(4) On a crosswalk;
(5) Within twenty (20) feet of a crosswalk at an intersection;
(6) Within fifteen (15) feet of a fire hydrant; or,
(7) Where signs are erected or curbs are painted indicating that such is not allowed.(Ord. No. 259, § 1-73, 4-5-1979; Ord. No. 999-9-90, § 2, 9-6-1990)

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V.T.C.A. Transportation Code

§ 545.301. STOPPING, STANDING, OR PARKING OUTSIDE A
BUSINESS OR RESIDENCE DISTRICT. (a) An operator may not stop,
park, or leave standing an attended or unattended vehicle on the
main traveled part of a highway outside a business or residence
district unless:
(1) stopping, parking, or leaving the vehicle off the
main traveled part of the highway is not practicable;
(2) a width of highway beside the vehicle is
unobstructed and open for the passage of other vehicles; and
(3) the vehicle is in clear view for at least 200 feet
in each direction on the highway.
(b) This section does not apply to an operator of a vehicle
that is disabled while on the paved or main traveled part of a
highway if it is impossible to avoid stopping and temporarily
leaving the vehicle on the highway.

Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 165, § 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995.

§ 545.302. STOPPING, STANDING, OR PARKING PROHIBITED IN
CERTAIN PLACES.
(a) An operator may not stop, stand, or park a
vehicle:
(1) on the roadway side of a vehicle stopped or parked
at the edge or curb of a street;
(2) on a sidewalk;
(3) in an intersection;
(4) on a crosswalk;
(5) between a safety zone and the adjacent curb or
within 30 feet of a place on the curb immediately opposite the ends
of a safety zone, unless the governing body of a municipality
designates a different length by signs or markings;
(6) alongside or opposite a street excavation or
obstruction if stopping, standing, or parking the vehicle would
obstruct traffic;
(7) on a bridge or other elevated structure on a
highway or in a highway tunnel;
(8) on a railroad track; or
(9) where an official sign prohibits stopping.
(b) An operator may not, except momentarily to pick up or
discharge a passenger, stand or park an occupied or unoccupied
vehicle:
(1) in front of a public or private driveway;
(2) within 15 feet of a fire hydrant;
(3) within 20 feet of a crosswalk at an intersection;
(4) within 30 feet on the approach to a flashing
signal, stop sign, yield sign, or traffic-control signal located at
the side of a roadway;
(5) within 20 feet of the driveway entrance to a fire
station and on the side of a street opposite the entrance to a fire
station within 75 feet of the entrance, if the entrance is properly
marked with a sign; or
(6) where an official sign prohibits standing.
(c) An operator may not, except temporarily to load or
unload merchandise or passengers, park an occupied or unoccupied
vehicle:
(1) within 50 feet of the nearest rail of a railroad
crossing; or
(2) where an official sign prohibits parking.
(d) A person may stop, stand, or park a bicycle on a sidewalk
if the bicycle does not impede the normal and reasonable movement of
pedestrian or other traffic on the sidewalk.
(e) A municipality may adopt an ordinance exempting a
private vehicle operated by an elevator constructor responding to
an elevator emergency from Subsections (a)(1), (a)(5), (a)(6),
(a)(9), (b), and (c).
(f) Subsections (a), (b), and (c) do not apply if the
avoidance of conflict with other traffic is necessary or if the
operator is complying with the law or the directions of a police
officer or official traffic-control device.
(g) If the governing body of a municipality determines that
it is necessary to improve the economic development of the
municipality's central business district and that it will not
adversely affect public safety, the governing body may adopt an
ordinance regulating the standing, stopping, or parking of a
vehicle at a place described by Subsection (a)(1), other than a road
or highway in the state highway system, in the central business
district of the municipality as defined in the ordinance. To the
extent of any conflict between the ordinance and Subsection (a)(1),
the ordinance controls.

Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 165, § 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995. Amended
by Acts 1999, 76th Leg., ch. 814, § 1, eff. June 18, 1999.

[tbranch]

Keith,

Thanks. I think it all comes down to the definition of parking versus standing. My position is since I was in gear with the motor running, I was standing and since there was no sign or marking prohibiting standing, my action was legal. If they want to argue I was "parked" then there is an exception that allows temporary parking to drop off or pick up. Now, I would have stood there for about 10 minutes. What's the definition of "temporary?"

Tom

[dave_in_austin]

Where was the officer parked/standing when he picked up his kid?

[tbranch]

Right behind the person standing behind me!

Tom

[srothstein]

Well, to tell the truth, I think you will lose the case if you try to fight it. Transportation code 541.401 defines parking as standing in an occupied or unoccupied vehicle. You only real hope is to try for the temporary exception for passengers, but the flip side of this argument is that you were waiting and not loading or unloading.

And do not bring up in court that the officer also parked int he red zone to get his kid. It is both irrelevant to your guilt or innocence AND legal for an emergency vehicle to park there. And the law does not say what the business has to be, just that this does not apply to the emergency vehicles.

What you can do is call the station and question the supervisor on why the officer can write the ticket to you while he is doing the exact same thing. It may be legal, but it is certainly unethical and bad public relations. The department might be willing to drop your ticket in a show of good faith.

[dave_in_austin]

<snip>
And do not bring up in court that the officer also parked int he red zone to get his kid. It is both irrelevant to your guilt or innocence AND legal for an emergency vehicle to park there. And the law does not say what the business has to be, just that this does not apply to the emergency vehicles.
<snip>

I have never understood why a police car parked in the fire lane at Walmart for 45 minutes while the officer processes shoplifters presents less of an obstruction to fire trucks and hazard to public safety than the UPS driver or US mail truck in the same place for 10 minutes does. In my opinion, a vehicle is not an emergency vehicle from a moral standpoint simply because it belongs to a city agency and sometimes responds to emergencies. If it unsafe for other vehicles to park there, then it is equally unsafe for the police car to be there. I feel that my safety is threatened by their obstruction of the fire lane to the same extent that is from any other vehicle and do not see why it permitted. I realize that the law does not agree with my viewpoint, but I find the behavior difficult to justify from a public safety standpoint.

[GrillKing]

What I was able to find in the traffic code indicates the officer CANNOT park/stand like he did. There is Permissable Conduct and When it is Permissable. Picking up your kid isn't included (at least not this section).... Looks to me like picking up the shoplifter at Walmart = OK to park/stand in the no parking zone; picking up your kid after school = not OK. You probably won't win in court, but if you dig deeper and find this to be correct, a polite call to the PD might be in order.

Sec. 546.001. PERMISSIBLE CONDUCT. In operating an authorized emergency vehicle the operator may:
(1) park or stand, irrespective of another provision of this subtitle;
(2) proceed past a red or stop signal or stop sign, after slowing as necessary for safe operation;
(3) exceed a maximum speed limit, except as provided by an ordinance adopted under Section 545.365, as long as the operator does not endanger life or property; and
(4) disregard a regulation governing the direction of movement or turning in specified directions.

Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 165, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995.


Sec. 546.002. WHEN CONDUCT PERMISSIBLE. (a) In this section, "police escort" means facilitating the movement of a funeral, oversized or hazardous load, or other traffic disruption for public safety purposes by a peace officer described by Articles 2.12(1)-(4), (8), and (22), Code of Criminal Procedure.
(b) Section 546.001 applies only when the operator is:
(1) responding to an emergency call;
(2) pursuing an actual or suspected violator of the law;
(3) responding to but not returning from a fire alarm;
(4) directing or diverting traffic for public safety purposes; or
(5) conducting a police escort.

[tbranch]

Well, to tell the truth, I think you will lose the case if you try to fight it. Transportation code 541.401 defines parking as standing in an occupied or unoccupied vehicle. You only real hope is to try for the temporary exception for passengers, but the flip side of this argument is that you were waiting and not loading or unloading.

What a web! 545.301 leads me to think that parking, standing, and stopping are three different things yet it appears 541.401 combines them.

And do not bring up in court that the officer also parked int he red zone to get his kid. It is both irrelevant to your guilt or innocence AND legal for an emergency vehicle to park there. And the law does not say what the business has to be, just that this does not apply to the emergency vehicles.

I would not have done that. His actions have no impact on my situation. I'll deal with him through the department.

What you can do is call the station and question the supervisor on why the officer can write the ticket to you while he is doing the exact same thing. It may be legal, but it is certainly unethical and bad public relations. The department might be willing to drop your ticket in a show of good faith.

While it might work, it's a long-shot given their need for revenue. If he writes three tickets every day while picking up his kid he's generating almost $600 a day for the city.

I'm going to pay the ticket and go on to something more productive to do with my time. Thanks.

Tom

[KBCraig]

Even if I was willing to eat the $167, I think personal satisfaction would require seeing the officer have to pay the same fine.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it only an "emergency vehicle" if lights and/or sirens are activated?

[jbirds1210]

The lights and sirens on a police vehicle as a rule do not have to be activated for it to be an emergency vehicle. § 546.003-546.004 lists exceptions to when a police officer has discretion when using these devices even when involved in emergency response.

§ 541.201. VEHICLES. In this subtitle:
(1) "Authorized emergency vehicle" means:
(A) a fire department or police vehicle;
(B) a public or private ambulance operated by a
person who has been issued a license by the Texas Department of
Health;
(C) a municipal department or public service
corporation emergency vehicle that has been designated or
authorized by the governing body of a municipality;
(D) a private vehicle of a volunteer firefighter
or a certified emergency medical services employee or volunteer
when responding to a fire alarm or medical emergency;
(E) an industrial emergency response vehicle,
including an industrial ambulance, when responding to an emergency,
but only if the vehicle is operated in compliance with criteria in
effect September 1, 1989, and established by the predecessor of the
Texas Industrial Emergency Services Board of the State Firemen's
and Fire Marshals' Association of Texas; or
(F) a vehicle of a blood bank or tissue bank,
accredited or approved under the laws of this state or the United
States, when making emergency deliveries of blood, drugs,
medicines, or organs.

[dave_in_austin]

Do you, or the UPS guy, have a radio on you at all times that allows you to be notified when an emergency vehicle is in route that will need the fire lane?

If we follow the logic implied in your question that it is OK to park there as long the vehicle can be moved in an emergency after the officer is notified, then it should be equally safe for someone to park a vehicle there as long as a driver is in the vehicle who can move the vehicle if an emergency vehicle that needs the fire lane arrives as was the case in the initial subject of this thread. I do not like to think my safety depends on someone in dispatch remembering to notify an officer who is parked in a fire lane to move his car before the fire truck arrives. There is no pressing need for the officer to block the fire lane in the first place when he is picking up his kid from school, ticketing a shoplifter, or buying a snack in McDonalds (yes, I have personally seen this). His act of doing so does not speak well of his commitment to public safety.

[KFP]

What if said officer in the store/grabbing lunch gets a radio call from dispatch to your house because he is the closest unit - I'd like him there quickly.

On topic: Regardless of the legalities, it seems "poor taste" to me to be giving out tickets while picking up your kids.