Am I anti-gun?

[PetrucciFan]

As of this moment (until someone can show me what I am missing), I think that requiring background checks at gun shows is a good thing (for non-CHL holders). Why is this an anti-gun stance?? I think sacrificing 15-20 minutes of time to fill out a form and have the guy call in my information is worth it to keep a felon from just walking in and buying a gun.

I've tried to think of a couple of scenarios where background checks might be a problem (i.e. someone who is completely legal to buy a gun might be unfortunate enough to have the same name as someone who is barred and the gun-show won't be around 3 days later when their background check clears), but I keep coming back to the opinion that it is a good preventative measure.

I know I am obviously not anti-gun (it's just the best title I could come up with).

I would really just appreciate some insight on why this is considered an anti-gun stance.

[txmatt]

Ending the supposed "gun show loophole" is an effort to end private firearm sales, or at least to regulate them. It would also mean that every time a firearm changes hands (legally) the federal government is notified, thus creating a backdoor registration. This is a huge concession of rights that should not be taken lightly. As an example, if one of these proposals were to be passed you would have to go to the federal government to get permission to sell your brother a rifle and, furthermore, if there were an error in the way it was handled in all likelihood both you and your brother would then become felons.

And to be clear we are only talking about non-FFL transactions. Any dealer at a gun show still has to run a check and fill out the paperwork, which is something the liberals tend to forget.

Oh and one more thing, if it weren't for the Clinton era (at least I think most of it was Clinton era) tightening up of FFL rules and increasing of fees I would be willing to bet that many of the people who have tables at gun shows but are not FFLs and thus don't run checks for sales would have an FFL and be running the checks. It's simply too expensive and difficult for someone who just buys and sells a few guns as a hobby to get an FFL.

[John]

no one replied to this so i'll take a stab.

everyone who buys a gun at a gun show from a dealer, i.e. someone who has a table and is selling guns, already has to have a back ground check. it is already required by law. The so called gun show loophole would ban individuals, i.e. non-dealers, from buying and/or selling to each other. It would most certainly affect the classifieds on this forum and would most certainly prevent you from selling a firearm to a friend or anyone to whom you might want to sell said weapon. That is my understanding of what is meant when they, congress, talk about the "gun show loophole".

Gun Show Loophole is just double speak for banning face to face sales. There is no real loop hole. Someone correct me if i am wrong.

[PetrucciFan]

And to be clear we are only talking about non-FFL transactions. Any dealer at a gun show still has to run a check and fill out the paperwork, which is something the liberals tend to forget.

OK, this was the part I was mis-understanding. Thanks for the clarification!

[txmatt]

And to be clear we are only talking about non-FFL transactions. Any dealer at a gun show still has to run a check and fill out the paperwork, which is something the liberals tend to forget.

OK, this was the part I was mis-understanding. Thanks for the clarification!

No problem. It's amazing how effective the gun ban crowd is in their deception that even people in the gun-owning population are led to believe there is a loophole.

[flintknapper]

Ending the supposed "gun show loophole" is an effort to end private firearm sales, or at least to regulate them. It would also mean that every time a firearm changes hands (legally) the federal government is notified, thus creating a backdoor registration. This is a huge concession of rights that should not be taken lightly. As an example, if one of these proposals were to be passed you would have to go to the federal government to get permission to sell your brother a rifle and, furthermore, if there were an error in the way it was handled in all likelihood both you and your brother would then become felons.

And to be clear we are only talking about non-FFL transactions. Any dealer at a gun show still has to run a check and fill out the paperwork, which is something the liberals tend to forget.

Nicely stated, consise..... and spot on in every respect!

I wish more people understood this.

[anygunanywhere]

I know I am obviously not anti-gun (it's just the best title I could come up with).

I would really just appreciate some insight on why this is considered an anti-gun stance.

Since no one has answered your request so far, I would like to comment. Actually, IMHO, a man's beliefs make him who he is. Your statement does align you with the antis.

Let me up front state that the background checks have prevented a few individuals from buying firearms from licensed dealers. This small number pales in comparison to the actual number of firearms owned by scum that should not have them. Prison has prevented much more. The death penalty is permanent disarming.

The main reason we should not tolerate background checks is because the government is doing the checking. The government is the reason we need our full second amendment rights AND to keep and bear arms. Do you actually think that the government is destroying the records of the checks? This is the same government that we are fearing will come knocking or breaking down doors. The same government that Maobama will take over and RULE (HIS SPOKESPERSON'S WORD).

Tell me how much you trust government?

When you allow the government to monitor what you do you allow them to control you, even if you do get to take your firearm home with you.

I keep reading where people say that if they come knocking they will say they sold them.

They won't come knocking.

Background checks are as much an infringement as any AWB. It is a wolf in sheeps clothing.

It amazes me the amount of freedom some posters have stated that they will give up for government promised safety.

Anygunanywhere

[lrb111]

Let's go one more step... Suppose the gun show loophole is closed. Which means regular citizens (non-ffl) need to call in NICS checks, or quit buying and selling in the show.

Anyone guess what happens? The same thing that was taking place before for-profit gun shows.

All the non-ffl just stay out, but close by, and we revive Swap Meets in the parking lots. These will just be on the same day as the shows.
Pickup beds with blankets and displays. SUVs with racks in the back. Big boxes of bullets. All in a tidy little corner of the parking lot. Closing the so-called loop hole changes nothing except the primary location for non-ffls. Face to face non-ffls are still legal in Texas.

[anygunanywhere]

Let's go one more step... Suppose the gun show loophole is closed. Which means regular citizens need to call in NICS checks, or quit buying and selling in the show.

Anyone guess what happens? The same thing that was taking place before for-profit gun shows.

Swap Meets in the parking lots,on the same day as the shows. Pickup beds with blankets and displays. SUVs with racks in the back. Big boxes of bullets. All in a tidy little corner of the parking lot. Closing the so-called loop hole changes nothing except the primary location.

It also will make any buyer or seller a criminal for exercising their FREEDOMS.

Anygunanywhere

[John]

Let's go one more step... Suppose the gun show loophole is closed. Which means regular citizens need to call in NICS checks, or quit buying and selling in the show.

Anyone guess what happens? The same thing that was taking place before for-profit gun shows.

Swap Meets in the parking lots,on the same day as the shows. Pickup beds with blankets and displays. SUVs with racks in the back. Big boxes of bullets. All in a tidy little corner of the parking lot. Closing the so-called loop hole changes nothing except the primary location.

lrb111.... do you really think that they'll only prohibit private sales at gun shows? the gun show loophole is private sales.

[nitrogen]

Let's play the what-if game here.
(no, I'm not really for any of these things I'm about to propose)

Let's say private sales are still legal w/o NICS or FFL, EXCEPT at gun shows.
At a gun show, you'd go to a "NICS BOOTH" pay $5-$10 and get a "bg check cert" for 2 peopel to sell a gun.

How many people would have a problem with this? It'd let the anti's think they ended the "gun show loophole" yet private party sales are still legal. As would meeting in the parking lot, 20 miles away to continue the transaction.

In return, we asked for no movement on an AWB for 4-8 years.

[lrb111]

It also will make any buyer or seller a criminal for exercising their FREEDOMS.

Anygunanywhere

Well, I suppose, we won't be so quick to discriminate against felons, after we all become one.
"We must all hang together, or surely we will all hang separately..." may get fresh attention.

[lrb111]

Let's go one more step... Suppose the gun show loophole is closed. Which means regular citizens need to call in NICS checks, or quit buying and selling in the show.

Anyone guess what happens? The same thing that was taking place before for-profit gun shows.

Swap Meets in the parking lots,on the same day as the shows. Pickup beds with blankets and displays. SUVs with racks in the back. Big boxes of bullets. All in a tidy little corner of the parking lot. Closing the so-called loop hole changes nothing except the primary location.

lrb111.... do you really think that they'll only prohibit private sales at gun shows? the gun show loophole is private sales.

The loop hole is that "private sales" in gun shows do not have NICS checks.
Private sales outside gun shows have never had NICS checks.
I don't see how they could try to make private citizens perform those checks, because private citizens do not, and cannot have access to the NICS databases.

[anygunanywhere]

I don't see how they could try to make private citizens perform those checks, because private citizens do not, and cannot have access to the NICS databases.

They will outlaw private sales that are not transferred through an FFL.

I can see the executive order now.

I can also see undercover ATF agents making buys and sales to wayward felons...I mean citizens....I mean subjects who thought that background checks were fine.

Forgive me for being so jaded but I really, really, really do not trust Maobama. Nothing the thug from CHicago could ever do would surprise me.

Anygunanywhere

[anygunanywhere]

lrb111.... do you really think that they'll only prohibit private sales at gun shows? the gun show loophole is private sales.

The goal of the antis is the elimination of every firearm from existence.

They want us to be like the UK.

No firearms. None Nada.

It is about control.

They will do anything and everything. There is nothing off the table.

Why is this so difficult to understand????

We can not compromise. This is not a consensus building exercise at work. This is life, and this is our freedom. Life is hard, freedom is not free.

Anygunanywhere