Got a ticket-strange traffic stop-update...Chiefs Response

[pt145ss]

Yes...got a speeding ticket (the first one in ten years)...and yes I deserved it. A few things that i thought were strange. First, the stop took almost 20 minutes, not sure why but it is the longest traffic stop i have been involved in. When the officer approached, I immediately handed him my DL, CHL, and insurance. Based on previous experiences, I was waiting for the usual questions..."are you carrying" and if so, "where is it"...which never came and I thought that was strange. He told me what I was pulled over for and asked, "Do you have a reason or an excuse for going so fast ?" I thought it was strange that he would ask for an "excuse." I don't believe that LEOs are paid enough to listen to my excuses and i don't think pleading temporarily stupid would help me, so I told him I have no excuse and that I simply was not paying enough attention. He went back to his vehicle and after a very long period of time, he came back to me...without anything in his hands (i.e. no clip board or my DL or anything). He told me he was going to cite me and then he bagan asking me strange questions...questions that i have never been asked before during a traffic stop. He asked if I was employed...and I said yes. He then asked where I was employed and i told him (he pulled out a small note pad and began writing it down). He than asked what my work number was...at this point I stopped and asked why he needed that information. He told me that they needed that information so they have a means of collection in case I did not pay. I thought this was strange because if i do not pay they could simply issue a warrent just like any other department would and it would eventually catch up to me. Again, I just do not think LEOs are paid enough to put up with a jerk on the side of the road so gave him the information asked for...to include my home number.

Is this something normal? Did I have the right to refuse to answer? By refusing, could i have been locked up?

I assume at the point that he said he was giving me a citation, I was technically under arrest and could have invoked my right to remain silent...

[CHL/LEO]

Yes...got a speeding ticket (the first one in ten years)...and yes I deserved it. A few things that i thought were strange. First, the stop took almost 20 minutes, not sure why but it is the longest traffic stop i have been involved in. When the officer approached, I immediately handed him my DL, CHL, and insurance. Based on previous experiences, I was waiting for the usual questions..."are you carrying" and if so, "where is it"...which never came and I thought that was strange. He told me what I was pulled over for and asked, "Do you have a reason or an excuse for going so fast ?" I thought it was strange that he would ask for an "excuse." I don't believe that LEOs are paid enough to listen to my excuses and i don't think pleading temporarily stupid would help me, so I told him I have no excuse and that I simply was not paying enough attention. He went back to his vehicle and after a very long period of time, he came back to me...without anything in his hands (i.e. no clip board or my DL or anything). He told me he was going to cite me and then he bagan asking me strange questions...questions that i have never been asked before during a traffic stop. He asked if I was employed...and I said yes. He then asked where I was employed and i told him (he pulled out a small note pad and began writing it down). He than asked what my work number was...at this point I stopped and asked why he needed that information. He told me that they needed that information so they have a means of collection in case I did not pay. I thought this was strange because if i do not pay they could simply issue a warrent just like any other department would and it would eventually catch up to me. Again, I just do not think LEOs are paid enough to put up with a jerk on the side of the road so gave him the information asked for...to include my home number.

Is this something normal? Did I have the right to refuse to answer? By refusing, could i have been locked up?

I assume at the point that he said he was giving me a citation, I was technically under arrest and could have invoked my right to remain silent...

Those are normal questions that we ask. Info goes on to your ticket so that if you don't pay our City Marshals will know where to find you at work when they serve warrants. Probably could have been arrested depending upon that particular department's policy.

[Right2Carry]

Yes...got a speeding ticket (the first one in ten years)...and yes I deserved it. A few things that i thought were strange. First, the stop took almost 20 minutes, not sure why but it is the longest traffic stop i have been involved in. When the officer approached, I immediately handed him my DL, CHL, and insurance. Based on previous experiences, I was waiting for the usual questions..."are you carrying" and if so, "where is it"...which never came and I thought that was strange. He told me what I was pulled over for and asked, "Do you have a reason or an excuse for going so fast ?" I thought it was strange that he would ask for an "excuse." I don't believe that LEOs are paid enough to listen to my excuses and i don't think pleading temporarily stupid would help me, so I told him I have no excuse and that I simply was not paying enough attention. He went back to his vehicle and after a very long period of time, he came back to me...without anything in his hands (i.e. no clip board or my DL or anything). He told me he was going to cite me and then he bagan asking me strange questions...questions that i have never been asked before during a traffic stop. He asked if I was employed...and I said yes. He then asked where I was employed and i told him (he pulled out a small note pad and began writing it down). He than asked what my work number was...at this point I stopped and asked why he needed that information. He told me that they needed that information so they have a means of collection in case I did not pay. I thought this was strange because if i do not pay they could simply issue a warrent just like any other department would and it would eventually catch up to me. Again, I just do not think LEOs are paid enough to put up with a jerk on the side of the road so gave him the information asked for...to include my home number.

Is this something normal? Did I have the right to refuse to answer? By refusing, could i have been locked up?

I assume at the point that he said he was giving me a citation, I was technically under arrest and could have invoked my right to remain silent...

Those are normal questions that we ask. Info goes on to your ticket so that if you don't pay our City Marshals will know where to find you at work when they serve warrants. Probably could have been arrested depending upon that particular department's policy.

Why would someone need to serve a warrant at work when you have their home address? I feel the added information that the officer asked for was an invasion of privacy. He has no need to know where I work or my work phone number. IMHO the only thing that is required is my home residence which is on the drivers license. I am required to provide my drivers license, insurance, and CHL if I am carrying, nothing more.

Please show me the stature that requires me to provide my employment status, work address, and work telephone number when receiving a traffic citation. I guess if I am ever in that situation I would just tell the officer that I am unemployed.

[pedalman]

Perhaps the proper polite response to the first "unusual" question should have been, "Officer, I understand that you are just doing your job. But, I really need to be on my way. Am I free to leave?"

Of course, this tactic would have to be used before any announcement of a citation being issued. I suppose you could modify it as such:

"Officer, I understand that you are just doing your job. But, I really need to be on my way. May I please have my citation?"

IANAL, but if my information serves correctly, you are only obligated to show your DL, CHL, and proof of insurance during a traffic stop. You are NOT required to answer any questions. (WARNING: politely declining to answer any questions may arouse suspicion from the officer, but that is a personal decision each of us has to make for ourselves)

Was this the Austin PD? If so, it sounds like the City Council is leaning on the PD to ensure that the revenue stream is not impeded. After all, the City does have a bit of a budget shortfall, as of late.

CHL/LEO: With all due respect to your professional experience, this type of questioning seems to have the same flavor of the questions that Chuck "Prince John" Rosenthal required his officers to ask motorists about their points of origin and destination. But I also understand that the street is NOT the place to argue the point. That arena belongs in the courtroom.

[AEA]

I too would not provide that information. It is none of their business.

This just rubs me the wrong way. No disrespect to CHL/LEO but the "Policy" stinks and can only require more time off the street for the Officer involved when he asks me those questions.

My opinion on this is that the State should crack down on these Agency's that overstep their authority and create frivolous "Policies" without regard to laws associated with "Right to Silence", "Right to speak with an Attorney" ....or ANY other RIGHT they they are trying to circumvent due to "Policy" or in some cases ask by way of "conversation".

[Commander Cody]

[pedalman]

My opinion on this is that the State should crack down on these Agency's that overstep their authority and create frivolous "Policies" without regard to laws associated with "Right to Silence", "Right to speak with an Attorney" ....or ANY other RIGHT they they are trying to circumvent due to "Policy" or in some cases ask by way of "conversation".

This is why it is up to each of us to assert our rights, albeit politely, but firmly.

[gregthehand]

I don't understand why a city cop would care. Their "judge" can't issue a warrant for your arrest anyhow (he's not an elected magistrate). I think they may be enforceable FTAs ONLY in that city. So unless they are turning their tickets over to the JPs office the whole phone number and place of employment thing is just to have a way to contact you and tell you to come pay your ticket (unless you work in that city). What a lot of these municipalities do now is turn their tickets over to a collection agency. Many counties will do the same if they write someone a ticket from way out of their area that never gets paid. I imagine the collection agency can use the same info to contact you. I've actually seen this take place after I got out of LE with a co-worker. He asked me if it was legal and I honestly didn't know.

I think honestly if an LEO told me he was going to give me a citation already and then started asking for that info I wouldn't give it to him. Truth be known I'd probably clue him in to a bit of my background and let him know that I know I don't have to answer those questions, or ANY questions. I don't even have to say anything. I can crack my window and slide them the info and then roll it back up. Once he gives me my info back I can just sign without saying a word.

On another note the asking about if you have an excuse, emergency etc etc is a tactic taught in the Academy (at least it was for me). You bascially ask them if they have an excuse why they would be speeding. Now that's a loaded question, think about it how it could go.

"Do you have any reason why you were driving that fast?"
"No I don't have an excuse"
"So then you acknowledge that you were speeding."

The best thing when they ask that questions to say is something like "I didn't think I was speeding." Notice you didn't say you were speeding, play into their trap, or start an argument. You just said you didn't think you were.

Anyway this is again just my observation.

[lunchbox]

this needs to be stopped
policy or no policy that doesnt make it right or legal

[flintknapper]

My opinion on this is that the State should crack down on these Agency's that overstep their authority and create frivolous "Policies" without regard to laws associated with "Right to Silence", "Right to speak with an Attorney" ....or ANY other RIGHT they they are trying to circumvent due to "Policy" or in some cases ask by way of "conversation".

This is why it is up to each of us to assert our rights, albeit politely, but firmly.

Bingo! We have a winner.

[Liberty]

On another note the asking about if you have an excuse, emergency etc etc is a tactic taught in the Academy (at least it was for me). You bascially ask them if they have an excuse why they would be speeding. Now that's a loaded question, think about it how it could go.

"Do you have any reason why you were driving that fast?"
"No I don't have an excuse"
"So then you acknowledge that you were speeding."

The best thing when they ask that questions to say is something like "I didn't think I was speeding." Notice you didn't say you were speeding, play into their trap, or start an argument. You just said you didn't think you were.

Anyway this is again just my observation.

Its been my experience that by the time it goes to court the LEO really has forgotten and will say anything to get the conviction. I've sat through a few cases as defendant juror, and just as an observer. Everyone lies no one is ever held accountable, No one seems to get punnished even when proven its a red face lie. IN JP Court. The LEOs The Balliff The Judge and the Prosecutor are like family with each other .. The Defendant and his lawyer are the outsiders, and one productive cop can bring in a lot of money to pay these salaries. The other thing I've noticed is that the defendant never seems to win, having a lawyer just means that the lawyer gets a chunk. At least that is how it works in Galveston and Brazoria counties.

[anygunanywhere]

I was recently issued a citation by Harris Co Pct 4. Pretty much a garbage stop but that is another story for another thread or over sips of adult beverage.....

They asked for my employer and phone number.

I am pretty adamant about preserving my rights. I really did not think of this as an issue and still would not.

Seems to me that folks will readily pony up personal data to buy trinkets and stuff on the internet but cringe at doing it at a traffic stop.

You are required to answer questions related to the stop. Privacy laws are probably in place that allow the LEO to gather this information. The place to fight this is with the legislature in session, not on the side of the road with ten fingers on the fender.

I will refuse to answer questions during a fishing expedition.

"Am I being detained or am I free to go, sir?"

Anygunanywhere

[lunchbox]

I was recently issued a citation by Harris Co Pct 4. Pretty much a garbage stop but that is another story for another thread or over sips of adult beverage.....

They asked for my employer and phone number.

I am pretty adamant about preserving my rights. I really did not think of this as an issue and still would not.

Seems to me that folks will readily pony up personal data to buy trinkets and stuff on the internet but cringe at doing it at a traffic stop.

You are required to answer questions related to the stop. Privacy laws are probably in place that allow the LEO to gather this information. The place to fight this is with the legislature in session, not on the side of the road with ten fingers on the fender.

I will refuse to answer questions during a fishing expedition.

"Am I being detained or am I free to go, sir?"

Anygunanywhere

i have a big problem with Harris Co Pct 4. as well an officer there tryed to arrest me for premeditated murder go figure and nobody was dead how does that work if anyone cares to hear the story let me know i will share im not trying to jack this guys thread

[CHL/LEO]

Its been my experience that by the time it goes to court the LEO really has forgotten and will say anything to get the conviction.

For the life of me I can't figure some of you guys out. On this forum I try to address questions that members have submitted, and in doing so perhaps explain why another LEO took the actions he or she did. After I've done that lately it seems then that it all becomes a big conspiracy by LEOs to "tell lies" and "violate citizens rights". If you have question regarding CHL holders and their interactions with LEOs then this forum seems like a good place to post your questions. If you hate every member of the government, think that all LEOs are crooked and will do anything to frame innocent civilians while they continually conspire to figure out ways to violate your civil rights, then perhaps you need to voice those diatribes on another website. That's just my humble opinion as a CHL holder and member of this forum - not as a LEO.

From now on if someone has a specific question about something that happened in the City of Dallas, or that occurred with the Dallas Police Department, feel free to post it and I'll try and address it. You may not like the answers I give, or even agree with why our department does things the way we do. That's your choice, but be aware that arguing with a police officer on the side of the road about why you don't like his city's procedures or policies is probably not going to get you the response that you want.

That individual officer is only enforcing state or municipal laws that they've been directed to enforce. They didn't write the laws or codes and while they can't change them - they do have some leeway as to how they enforce them. There's a reason why the legislature left us that leeway in the Code of Criminal Procedures - not everyone has to or needs to be arrested.

I can not represent all 3,200+ officers on my department but I can give you a general overview of why things are, along with what and why I personally would take (or not take) certain actions. If those are helpful to you, or provide some insight into why we do things, then great. If not - then again that's your choice.

[WildBill]

I can not represent all 3,200+ officers on my department but I can give you a general overview of why things are, along with what and why I personally would take (or not take) certain actions. If those are helpful to you, or provide some insight into why we do things, then great. If not - then again that's your choice.

Just as you can not represent the 3,200+ officers in the DPD, these few forum members do not represent the 250,000+ CHL holders in the state of Texas. I appreciate your contributions to the forum and don't want you to get discouraged by these minority opinions.