This makes for an interesting quandry

[pedalman]

There is no doubt that my employer makes it clear that firearms are not permitted:

http://www.austincc.edu/hr/employeehand ... ledweapons

I thought that state law already did that in PC 46.03 (a)(1). Seems redundant, but then again; IANAL.

Here's where the quandry comes in:

The above citation states that the definition of "Premises" has the meaning assigned by Section 46.035 (f)(3), which does NOT include "any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area."

However, Education Code 37.125 says:
(a) A person commits an offense if, in a manner intended to cause alarm or personal injury to another person or to damage school property, the person intentionally exhibits, uses, or threatens to exhibit or use a firearm:
(1) in or on any property, including a parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area, that is owned by a private or public school

I understand not carrying in the building, but it sounds like I would be looking at a third degree felony if I kept my pistol secured in my vehicle on the college parking lot. Sounds like I would have to park on the street to avoid breaking the law.

Are there any other higher-education employees out there with this same problem?

[Kalrog]

(a) A person commits an offense if, in a manner intended to cause alarm or personal injury to another person or to damage school property, the person intentionally exhibits, uses, or threatens to exhibit or use a firearm

Just don't whip it out with the intent to cause alarm or injury. No problem.

[jmorris]

There is no doubt that my employer makes it clear that firearms are not permitted:

http://www.austincc.edu/hr/employeehand ... ledweapons

I thought that state law already did that in PC 46.03 (a)(1). Seems redundant, but then again; IANAL.

Here's where the quandry comes in:

The above citation states that the definition of "Premises" has the meaning assigned by Section 46.035 (f)(3), which does NOT include "any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area."

However, Education Code 37.125 says:
(a) A person commits an offense if, in a manner intended to cause alarm or personal injury to another person or to damage school property, the person intentionally exhibits, uses, or threatens to exhibit or use a firearm:
(1) in or on any property, including a parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area, that is owned by a private or public school

I understand not carrying in the building, but it sounds like I would be looking at a third degree felony if I kept my pistol secured in my vehicle on the college parking lot. Sounds like I would have to park on the street to avoid breaking the law.

Are there any other higher-education employees out there with this same problem?

37.125 just says that you can't go waving your pistol around in a "manner intended to cause alarm....yada, yada". Just keep it concealed.

[Thiggy]

Let's make sure we are saying the same thing here. Keep it concealed in your car in a public parking area, not on your person. I work at a university as well and I'm not comfortable with it, but I disarm when I park my truck at work, and re-arm when I get in my truck to leave.

[pedalman]

Let's make sure we are saying the same thing here. Keep it concealed in your car in a public parking area, not on your person. I work at a university as well and I'm not comfortable with it, but I disarm when I park my truck at work, and re-arm when I get in my truck to leave.

That's a given about it not being on my person. That is where the confusion about the parking lot comes in. The campus parking lot is accessible to the public (no gates or guard shacks), but the majority of the parking spots are by permit only (as it is in most higher-ed institutions I have seen). To me, this implies that the parking lot is not public, therefore trumping the legality of my pistol being locked in the truck safe.

[LarryH]

However, Education Code 37.125 says:
(a) A person commits an offense if, in a manner intended to cause alarm or personal injury to another person or to damage school property, the person intentionally exhibits, uses, or threatens to exhibit or use a firearm:
(1) in or on any property, including a parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area, that is owned by a private or public school

IMHO, if your weapon is locked up inside your vehicle, you can not be said to "intentionally exhibit, use or threaten to exhibit or use" that firearm. Furthermore an assertion of "a manner intended to cause alarm or personal injury to another person or to damage school property" would be no-billed instanter.

[Thiggy]

As long as we are clear on that, I agree with what has been said. Leave it concealed in the car and there is no infraction. It helps me feel more comfortable that I have actively sought a friendship with our Chief of Police (we have our own certified police force on campus; I'm not sure what ACC has), and he has assured me that while our university is private and has rules against weapons, he and his staff would have no reason to search my vehicle (assuming I'm not doing anything illegal, of course) and if they did find a HG in my truck he would not feel the need to inform the administration. He also agreed with my interpretation that it is perfectly legal to leave a HG secured in your car in a campus parking lot as long as it is not specifically prohibited (at a state school). He did draw the line though. I asked him if he had considered giving "written authorization" (46.03 a (1)) to conceal on campus. He would not.

[pedalman]

Thanks for the insight, folks.

[Charles L. Cotton]

[quote="ACC "Concealed Weapon Law" "]Concealed Weapons Law

To maintain the safety and security of ACC employees, students and the public, the College prohibits the possession of weapons on its property, including all ACC vehicles, at any time.

It is unlawful to carry a concealed weapon on ACC premises. A person commits an offense if, with a firearm, illegal knife, club or other prohibited weapon (Section 46.05(a) of the Texas Concealed Handgun Laws) he/she intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly enters the physical premises of ACC or other grounds, buildings or vehicles used to conduct ACC business.[/quote]

I would like to point out two things. First, the above-quoted statement on the ACC website is wrong. It is not unlawful to carry a concealed handgun on "other grounds . . . used to conduct ACC business." School grounds are off-limits only if there is a school sponsored event on-going. TPC §46.03(a)(1) [BTW, §46.05 is in the Texas Penal Code, not a non-existent "Texas Concealed Handgun Laws." Also, TPC §46.05 deals with machine guns, silencers, explosive devices, etc., not guns on school grounds.]

Since "premise" is defined to be a building or portion of a building, it is not unlawful to have it on your person, so long as you don't go into a building or on grounds where a school sponsored activity is on-going.

Secondly, Tex. Ed. Code §37.125 does not address having firearms on school property. It deals solely with intentionally exhibiting a firearm or threatening to exhibit a firearm (i.e. pulling a gun or threatening to do so) in a manner to cause alarm or personal injury. So just having it in your car or on your person does not violate §37.125. Obviously, you can't have it on your person if you don't have a CHL.

Everything I posted deals with criminal prosecution, not being fired or expelled.

Chas.

[eric]

you gave up your concealment when you asked questions about carry and now they know. In my opinion wrong. Know the rules a don't tell.

[mr surveyor]

you gave up your concealment when you asked questions about carry and now they know. In my opinion wrong. Know the rules a don't tell.

I'm not sure I agree with this idea. It seems to be pretty prevalent around here though. I see a huge distinction between "confidentiality", in other words "keeping a secret", and "concealment", keeping something out of sight. I just do not believe that discussion of carrying weapons results in a lack of concealment.


surv

[pt145ss]

you gave up your concealment when you asked questions about carry and now they know. In my opinion wrong. Know the rules a don't tell.

I'm not sure I agree with this idea. It seems to be pretty prevalent around here though. I see a huge distinction between "confidentiality", in other words "keeping a secret", and "concealment", keeping something out of sight. I just do not believe that discussion of carrying weapons results in a lack of concealment.


surv

I agree with mr surveyor. I went to the Texas State University police once and asked questions about concealed carry. In reference to under ground parking where I had a parking permit. A lieutenant came out a spoke with me at some length about it. He told me that they interpret underground parking as being same as surface parking and therefore state law proves conceal carry to be legal there as well. At no time did I believe that simply stating that I would be carrying under the authority of CHL as being the same as failing to conceal.

[Penn]

If you work for the school and they tell you not to bring the firearm on school property, then you can be fired if they find out. No criminal liability in my opinion.

[Briankey]

I read the Part about an "Illegal Knife" so, what's an Illegal Knife?. I'm sure that in the Cafeteria they have Steak Knives?, so why would Protecting yourself with a Steak Knife be a problem?.
Steak Knives can cut to.
If that Law includes Steak Knives, then the college is in violation of its own Law if they have these knives in the Cafeteria.

[boomerang]

I read the Part about an "Illegal Knife" so, what's an Illegal Knife?. I'm sure that in the Cafeteria they have Steak Knives?, so why would Protecting yourself with a Steak Knife be a problem?.
Steak Knives can cut to.
If that Law includes Steak Knives, then the college is in violation of its own Law if they have these knives in the Cafeteria.

They should have covered 46.01 in your CHL class.

"Illegal knife" means a:
(A) knife with a blade over five and one-half inches;
(B) hand instrument designed to cut or stab another by being thrown;
(C) dagger, including but not limited to a dirk, stiletto, and poniard;
(D) bowie knife;
(E) sword; or
(F) spear.

Where did you go to school. I don't think I ever ate in a college cafeteria that had steak knives, even if some of the meat needed a serious knife!