CHL at "School Sponsored Event"

[G Wagner]

If the school children (say grades K-12) "visits" say a zoo and is allowed entry for no charge, is that a "school sponsored event". A ask becaause with a CHL you are "not allowed" to carry, if there is a "school sponsored event".

Would the same apply anywhere the school allows the student to travel during school hours. Hey, let's stop at McDonald's on the way back.

[troglodyte]

Yet another grey area not defined by the law (and another reason to lift restricitons on where one can carry).

As commonsense would dictate (I know, I know) being at the zoo when a fieldtrip comes in doesn't constitute a "school sponsored event" assuming you are not a member of the party. Band concerts, graduation, and sporting events that are held off school grounds, in a designated "premise" controlled (leased, rented, borrowed, etc.) by the school at that time would be a sponsored event.

Just cause a school group shows up at the mall to do a study on marketing doesn't make them in control of the mall. As long as I am not in their party, I am not attending or participating in the event.

Just to throw a kink in things, how would you know it was a school sponsored event? Do they have to post notice of some type. What if you were at the zoo, enjoying your day, and a school group came in. Do you have to leave (or disarm)? If the school group is on one side of Sears and you walk in the other side and don't know they are there, are you in violation? If a school is renting a room in a hotel? What about a room in the publically owned civic center? Is the whole civic center off limits.

You bring up a good question. Commonsense dictates one answer, case law the other. I don't know of any case law that has arisen that addresses this. Certainly the letter of the law is vague at best.

Lots of ways to look at it. None very clear.

[jimlongley]

Also keep in mind the wording at the very top of 46.03:

PC §46.03. PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED. (a) A person commits
an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses
or goes with a firearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon
listed in Section 46.05(a):



If you don't know, you aren't in violation

But if you are carrying under authority of your CHL, you could be considered to be intentionally which negates the knowingly.

I think it's one of those things that either has to be clarified by further legislative effort (see my letter to the Dallas Morning News today) or by someone actually being arrested and prosecuted for intentionally, or knowingly, or recklessly, and appealing.

[Charles L. Cotton]

As others have mentioned, there is some dispute on what constitutes "grounds." I believe the statute taken as a whole indicates the activity has to be occurring on grounds owned by the school, as all of TPC §46.02(a) deals with schools. The buildings are school buildings, the transportation vehicles are the schools'. (If school children ride a city buss to the zoo, the bus would not be off limits to CHLs because the buss is not "a transportation vehicle of the school, . . .") Further, the statute allows the carrying of firearms in such places, with "written authorization" of the institution. It would be quite a stretch to presume that the Legislature intended the school to have the authority to authorize the carrying of firearms on someone else's property. When read in its entirety, as we are required to do, I believe TPC §46.02(a) applies only to school property and school vehicles.

But as noted, this is a gray area; the cutting edge of the law where many people find themselves bleeding to death.

Chas.

§ 46.03. PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED. (a) A person
commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or
recklessly possesses or goes with a firearm, illegal knife, club,
or prohibited weapon listed in Section 46.05(a):
(1) on the physical premises of a school or
educational institution, any grounds or building on which an
activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being
conducted, or a passenger transportation vehicle of a school or
educational institution, whether the school or educational
institution is public or private, unless pursuant to written
regulations or written authorization of the institution;

[slow944]

I have a question about "School Event". My nephew is on the A&M La Cross team, tonight they are playing at Texas Stadium, if they win they play tomorrow aswell. Is this considered a school event since it's not on school property? I think it is considered a sporting event and will not risk the chance of going armed. What say all of you?

[Keith B]

I have a question about "School Event". My nephew is on the A&M La Cross team, tonight they are playing at Texas Stadium, if they win they play tomorrow aswell. Is this considered a school event since it's not on school property? I think it is considered a sporting event and will not risk the chance of going armed. What say all of you?

Professional sporting event, no. School sponsored function, yes, since it is collegiate sports.

[aardwolf]

It sounds like "the premises where a high school, collegiate, or professional sporting event or interscholastic event is taking place"

[Keith B]

I have a question about "School Event". My nephew is on the A&M La Cross team, tonight they are playing at Texas Stadium, if they win they play tomorrow aswell. Is this considered a school event since it's not on school property? I think it is considered a sporting event and will not risk the chance of going armed. What say all of you?

Professional sporting event, no. School sponsored function, yes, since it is collegiate sports.

After re-reading Charles interpretation above, I believe it may not be off-limits if the statute really is on school grounds only. However, as he stated, I would hate to be a test case.

[barres]

I have a question about "School Event". My nephew is on the A&M La Cross team, tonight they are playing at Texas Stadium, if they win they play tomorrow aswell. Is this considered a school event since it's not on school property? I think it is considered a sporting event and will not risk the chance of going armed. What say all of you?

Professional sporting event, no. School sponsored function, yes, since it is collegiate sports.

After re-reading Charles interpretation above, I believe it may not be off-limits if the statute really is on school grounds only. However, as he stated, I would hate to be a test case.

Different part of the code. Charles is talking about places where weapons are prohibited. This situation is talking about Unlawful Carrying of a Handgun by a Licensee.

A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, on or about the license holder's person:
(1) on the premises of a business that has a permit or license issued under Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic Beverage Code, if the business derives 51 percent or more of its income from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption, as determined by the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code;
(2) on the premises where a high school, collegiate, or professional sporting event or interscholastic event is taking place, unless the license holder is a participant in the event and a handgun is used in the event;

[Keith B]

Different part of the code. Charles is talking about places where weapons are prohibited. This situation is talking about Unlawful Carrying of a Handgun by a Licensee.

Ah, I see now. Didn't read it close enough. In the words of Emily Litella (Gilda Radner's character on SNL) 'Never mind!'