Help for a confused purchaser

[dfws4]

Set-up - I have been shooting for 15 years. Rifles, pistols, shotguns. I currently own a Glock 17, Ruger 4" GP100 (Stainless) and 5" Springfield Loaded .45 (Stainless), as well as numerous shotguns and rifles. I have taken my CHL Class, qualified with a Semi-Auto (100% on the test!) and am now waiting for my plastic.

Why I need your help?: I don't feel that any of my current pistols are great for carry. I'm 5' 11" and 168lbs. I tend to wear fitted jeans and shirts, with not a lot of extra room for concealment of a full-size pistol. So, I'm leaning towards making a purchase specific for carry.

Being that I probably won't be able to wear IWB with my clothing, I guess I'm looking for something I can wear close to my body, OWB or SOB. Most of the time I'll be carrying with a shirt untucked to cover the weapon. So far, I have narrowed my choices to two options:

Sig P232 Two-Tone .380
S&W Airweight Stainless .38sp

I can shoot both of these handguns well and from what I've read and been told, both are extremely reliable. My concern is the caliber - both are not "optimal" for carry but I feel that with my accuracy and training, placement will be more key. So, experts of the forum, are these good choices for my criteria - thin, lightweight and easily concealable with my attire?

Thanks in advance for any help you can provide.

[seamusTX]

Given your choices, .38 Special is demonstrably more powerful than .380; and it's difficult or impossible to find .380 hollowpoints.

You might want to spend a little more time investigating concealed carry of larger handguns. I am thin -- size 32 slacks are loose on me. I can carry a full-size service pistol IWB with an untucked shirt. No one has ever indicated that they "made" me, including cops.

- Jim

[chewy555]

I am a big guy, so I can not help you in that area. Of the two that you listed I would go with the 38special.
But I think that if you look at the jeans that you are wearing, and maybe get one size up, you can carry your full size handguns very well with an untucked shirt. Or another way to go may be looking at the Glock 26. Just a thought.

[aardwolf]

A j-frame is good for pocket or ankle carry but maybe not with fitted jeans.

If you're planning to wear an untucked shirt with an owb holster you should try it with your 1911 first.

[dfws4]

Thanks to all replies. I won't be carrying during the week because my office prohibits it. So, my carrying will be restricted to weekends where I wear nothing but jeans. I tried to put an IWB holster in my favorite pair of jeans yesterday but it just didn't work - the jeans were too fitted and it wouldn't allow. So, I had tentatively thought OWB would be best for me and my weekend attire. Does a full-size pistol hang down too low OWB where I'd have to wear extra long shirts?

This is so confusing. I want a gun with good stopping power but not one that can't be concealed with my attire or that is NO fun to shoot - snub .357 for example.

[bdickens]

I'm about 20 pounds heavier than you (mostly muscle ) . With relaxed fit jeans and a slightly oversize shirt tucked in and bloused a little, my Glock 19 will completely vanish. I can bend at the waist to a 45Deg. angle before anything starts to show.

[seamusTX]

Thanks to all replies. I won't be carrying during the week because my office prohibits it. So, my carrying will be restricted to weekends where I wear nothing but jeans. I tried to put an IWB holster in my favorite pair of jeans yesterday but it just didn't work - the jeans were too fitted and it wouldn't allow.

For IWB, you have to compromise a little. I buy nearly all my clothes at second-hand stores. If you do that, you can experiment without spending a lot of money.

You can bring a paperback book that is roughly the size of your pistol and see how the pants fit with the book tucked into the waistband.

So, I had tentatively thought OWB would be best for me and my weekend attire. Does a full-size pistol hang down too low OWB where I'd have to wear extra long shirts?

It depends. If your pants have a low-slung waist, an OWB holster will hang down below the bottom of a typical polo-style shirt.

You can find combinations of shirts and pants that will cover an OWB holster, but that setup has more chance of printing and accidental concealment failure. I have done it with no problem, but I don't do it regularly.

You can get an Uncle Mike's holster that converts from IWB to OWB for less than $20. That is a cheap way to experiment.

I would not use one of those long-term as an OWB holster. It has a single metal belt clip, which is less stable than an OWB holster with two slots for the belt, and retention is not as good as with a custom-made holster.

- Jim

[Kerbouchard]

Thanks to all replies. I won't be carrying during the week because my office prohibits it. So, my carrying will be restricted to weekends where I wear nothing but jeans. I tried to put an IWB holster in my favorite pair of jeans yesterday but it just didn't work - the jeans were too fitted and it wouldn't allow. So, I had tentatively thought OWB would be best for me and my weekend attire. Does a full-size pistol hang down too low OWB where I'd have to wear extra long shirts?

This is so confusing. I want a gun with good stopping power but not one that can't be concealed with my attire or that is NO fun to shoot - snub .357 for example.

Most people find that they have to dress around their choice of gun. Most people will buy pants a size larger or wear a slightly larger shirt. It is a compromise a lot of us are willing to make.

That said, it sounds like you are wanting to go the other way, to find a gun to fit into your normal dress. That's fine, but there are limitations. A 1911 is a great concealed weapon because it is so thin. Most revolvers will be wider, thus making them more difficult to conceal. As far as the 1911, a good belt, a quality holster, and a cover garment(even an untucked shirt) can conceal just about anything. If you get a holster with adjustable cant, you can control the angle that your firearm sits, therefore controlling how far down it will be. From there, you would just have to wear shirts that would accomodate it. The tip of your barrel would probably be about 3 inches below your belt line. You would probably need your shirt to hang at least another 2-3 inches past that to allow you to bend, twist, etc. I had very good luck with http://www.highnoonholsters.com/Product ... _line.html They have a lot of items in stock, the holsters are good quality, and they are very affordable. I normally use a SmartCarry or a HighNoon Split Decision.

Whatever you choose, just make sure that your holster slots match your belt width. Most people who have problems with printing have a poor belt, or a quality belt that is not wide enough. YMMV.

If you do not believe you can conceal a full size 1911 with your attire, a S&W Model 340 might be the best for you. http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/ ... sFirearm=Y or a model 640 http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/ ... y_rn=15704

It would be very small and easy to conceal. You could carry .357 therefore satisfying your 'power' requirement, but could shoot .38 for practice. In most accounts of actual self defense shootings, people don't remember how many shots they fired or the noise, or how the recoil felt, so a .357 should be fine for self defense. Adrenaline takes over, and a lot of your 'non-essential' senses will shutdown, and you will only be concentrating on the threat. Again, YMMV.

That being said, I think the .38 is an adequate self defense round. My personal line for power of a round stops at 9mm, so for me the .380 would be out.

Like you said in your first post, shot placement is going to be paramount for any time of handgun. There is no magic caliber, and no magic bullet. A BG is not going to fly back 10 feet regardless of what you hit him with(unless you are using a car).

Wound channel and what the bullet destroys in it's path through the body are by far more important than what number your caliber started with.

[KBCraig]

The truth is, you're not going to find any comfortable method of concealed carry given your current clothing style. "Tight" and "concealed" just don't go together without a cover garment of some kind.

I accepted reality and gave myself a personal makeover when I started carrying. No more tight jeans and tucked t-shirts. Looser jeans, a good heavy belt, and usually an oversized camp/bowling/club/Hawaiian shirt over a t-shirt.

Alternatively, you could keep the tight jeans and wear OWB with a blazer.

You can actually look more in style this way, not that the current fashion has ever worried me.

[seamusTX]

Alternatively, you could keep the tight jeans and wear OWB with a blazer.

In my experience, that doesn't work for a man who is a stringbean and wears a tailored jacket. I would have to wear a jacket two sizes too large.

There's a reason James Bond carried a .32-caliber Walther.

- Jim

[txswabby]

I am 6'1" 165 lbs and on the "thin" side, and I have found, depending on where I want to be, a "fanny pack" holster
works really great. It's instant open, designed that way to expose the holster inside with my Walther PPK/S .380.
Just a suggestion.

[ELB]

To reiterate a point brought up by others -- find clothes to wear around the gun, not otherway around.

Having said that, here are some thoughts to consider...

I find the flatter the gun, the more concealable it is for me. I carry a Browning Hi Power in a CompTac C-TAC IWB holster, and I find that works very well, even under just a tucked in polo shirt. 1911 would probably work for the same reason, altho I think the Hi Power is a bit trimmer. Sounds like you would definitely have to go up a size in jeans. Also, you might find a shoulder holster would work. Might be tougher to get to if you wear polo or t-shirts, tho.

If you decide to try to fit the pistol to the clothes, then perhaps go for a Rohrbaugh R-9 (I think there is one for sale on this forum right now). I do not have any personal experience with them, but I hear they are well-made and reliable. They had better be for the price! Not cheapest gun, around $1000 last time I looked. Kel-Tec's newest 9mm might be a possibility too.

If you go the .380 route, I would recommend finding the smallest pistol that you can shoot a .380 with. Choosing a .380 that is as big as one of the small 9mms doesn't compute with me, unless you just plain can't shoot the smallest versions of 9mm and .380. (Note that a Kahr PM 9 is shorter, slimmer, and lighter than a Sig p-232, and with the slightly extended magazine, carries the same number of rounds in a significantly more helpful caliber.)

A Kel-Tec P-3AT or the Ruger LCP would fit very nicely in the back pocket of your jeans, and you can even get a neck holster to wear under your shirt. Also they would fit easily IWB if you wear your shirt untucked. Heck, for the size and cost, you could buy two and wear them both. As for ammo for a .380, I've never shot anybody with one, but I respect John Farnam's opinion highly, and he highly recommends the Cor-bon DPX ammo. Good penetration and expansion for what it is. It is what is in my wife's P-3AT.

And of course the j-frame revolvers are usually pretty handy to hide away. I carry one as a BUG in either a front or back pants pocket, depending on the pants (and I will slowly be weeding out the pants that do not have deep enough back pockets.) The alloy frame ones are pretty light and comfortable to carry.

Good luck with your decisions. (I use the plural, because whatever you choose initially, you'll probably at least modify it some down the road. takes awhile to figure out what works best for you.)

elb

[fm2]

With a little wardrobe change, you could carry any of the pistols you currently have. Lots of people carry Those sized pistols, or something a little smaller, ie the size of a Glock 19 has much to offer. Not to discourage any new firearms purchases though. The J-frame or maybe a Kahr P series are also worth trying. There is also the belly band & ankle holster to consider if you are holding fast and resisting any wardrobe changes.

Not knowing your body size, maybe you could go with a Tall shirt to cover the OWB holster, or one size larger may do it. Clothes are all cut a little different, so you would have to try them & see.

You could try a Bahrami hip grip on the J-frame also.

[lws380]

.380 in a decent back pocket holster is very easy to carry and comfortable. Try the new Ruger LCP, Keltec, or Seecamp in a .380 back pocket and you will find it can go everywhere. If you wear tighter pants, who cares with back pocket holster as it prints as a wallet. It may be more comfortable in a little larger pants, but as long as it goes in the pocket, no one will know!

[frankie_the_yankee]

If you're just going to carry on weekends with casual attire, try using a vest as a cover garment. Either a leather vest or a Banana Republic type photographer's vest will work great. You will need a good OWB holster of the high ride type, and a stiff belt. (High ride holsters and short barreled guns don't work well unless the belt firmly holds the holster upright. Otherwise, the holster can flop out to the side, sometimes even dumping the gun.)

All that having been said, you would be a lot better off if you dumped the tight clothes and dressed around the gun. Then, you'd be able to carry anything with no problems.

It all depends on where your priorities are.

From what you have written, you seem to be conflicted a bit. You're concerned with having adequate stopping power, yet being able to wear tight clothing seems to be a high priority as well.

Unless you somehow resolve that conflict, you're gonna have problems until and unless TX changes its laws and legalizes open carry.