Church Carry

[rgunn]

Where does it state in the Penal Codes that churchs must post a 30.06 sign to restrict carry? I have read
http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/pe.toc.htm and it says churchs are off limits, although I know they are not. The statutes say they are current through the 80th legislature, so I am missing something I guess?

[rgunn]

Nevermind I found it

[The Annoyed Man]

I don't know if this will help, but FlintKnapper posted this to me on another forum which was instructive, because I had misinterpreted the statute to bar CHL carry in churches (see the 3 sections highlighted in red)...

§ 46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE
HOLDER. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license
holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person
under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code,
and intentionally fails to conceal the handgun.
(b) A license holder commits an offense if the license
holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun
under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code,
regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, on or about the
license holder's person:
(1) on the premises of a business that has a permit or
license issued under Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic
Beverage Code, if the business derives 51 percent or more of its
income from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for
on-premises consumption, as determined by the Texas Alcoholic
Beverage Commission under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code;
(2) on the premises where a high school, collegiate,
or professional sporting event or interscholastic event is taking
place, unless the license holder is a participant in the event and a
handgun is used in the event;
(3) on the premises of a correctional facility;
(4) on the premises of a hospital licensed under
Chapter 241, Health and Safety Code, or on the premises of a nursing
home licensed under Chapter 242, Health and Safety Code, unless the
license holder has written authorization of the hospital or nursing
home administration, as appropriate;
(5) in an amusement park; or
(6) on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other
established place of religious worship. (c) A license holder commits an offense if the license
holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun
under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code,
regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, at any meeting of a
governmental entity.
(d) A license holder commits an offense if, while
intoxicated, the license holder carries a handgun under the
authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless
of whether the handgun is concealed.
(e) A license holder who is licensed as a security officer
under Chapter 1702, Occupations Code, and employed as a security
officer commits an offense if, while in the course and scope of the
security officer's employment, the security officer violates a
provision of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code.
(f) In this section:
(1) "Amusement park" means a permanent indoor or
outdoor facility or park where amusement rides are available for
use by the public that is located in a county with a population of
more than one million, encompasses at least 75 acres in surface
area, is enclosed with access only through controlled entries, is
open for operation more than 120 days in each calendar year, and has
security guards on the premises at all times. The term does not
include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or
walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.
(2) "License holder" means a person licensed to carry
a handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code.
(3) "Premises" means a building or a portion of a
building. The term does not include any public or private driveway,
street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other
parking area.
(g) An offense under Subsection (a), (b), (c), (d), or (e)
is a Class A misdemeanor, unless the offense is committed under
Subsection (b)(1) or (b)(3), in which event the offense is a felony
of the third degree.
(h) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (a) that
the actor, at the time of the commission of the offense, displayed
the handgun under circumstances in which the actor would have been
justified in the use of deadly force under Chapter 9.

Text of subsection as added by Acts 2007, 80th Leg., R.S., Ch. 1214,
§ 2

(h-1) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsections (b)
and (c) that the actor, at the time of the commission of the
offense, was:
(1) an active judicial officer, as defined by Section
411.201, Government Code; or
(2) a bailiff designated by the active judicial
officer and engaged in escorting the officer.

Text of subsection as added by Acts 2007, 80th Leg., R.S., Ch. 1222,
§ 5

(h-1) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsections
(b)(1), (2), and (4)-(6), and (c) that at the time of the commission
of the offense, the actor was:
(1) a judge or justice of a federal court;
(2) an active judicial officer, as defined by Section
411.201, Government Code; or
(3) a district attorney, assistant district attorney,
criminal district attorney, assistant criminal district attorney,
county attorney, or assistant county attorney.
(i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply
if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06.
(j) Subsections (a) and (b)(1) do not apply to a historical
reenactment performed in compliance with the rules of the Texas
Alcoholic Beverage Commission.

Added by Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 229, § 4, eff. Sept. 1, 1995.
Amended by Acts 1997, 75th Leg., ch. 165, § 10.04, eff. Sept. 1,
1997; Acts 1997, 75th Leg., ch. 1261, § 26, 27, eff. Sept. 1,
1997; Acts 2001, 77th Leg., ch. 1420, § 14.833, eff. Sept. 1,
2001.

Amended by:
Acts 2005, 79th Leg., Ch. 976, § 3, eff. September 1, 2005.
Acts 2007, 80th Leg., R.S., Ch. 1214, § 2, eff. June 15,
2007.
Acts 2007, 80th Leg., R.S., Ch. 1222, § 5, eff. June 15,
2007.

[rgunn]

I don't know if this will help, but FlintKnapper posted this to me on another forum which was instructive, because I had misinterpreted the statute to bar CHL carry in churches (see the 3 sections highlighted in red)...

§ 46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE
HOLDER. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license
holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person
under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code,
and intentionally fails to conceal the handgun.
(b) A license holder commits an offense if the license
holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun
under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code,
regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, on or about the
license holder's person:
(1) on the premises of a business that has a permit or
license issued under Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic
Beverage Code, if the business derives 51 percent or more of its
income from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for
on-premises consumption, as determined by the Texas Alcoholic
Beverage Commission under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code;
(2) on the premises where a high school, collegiate,
or professional sporting event or interscholastic event is taking
place, unless the license holder is a participant in the event and a
handgun is used in the event;
(3) on the premises of a correctional facility;
(4) on the premises of a hospital licensed under
Chapter 241, Health and Safety Code, or on the premises of a nursing
home licensed under Chapter 242, Health and Safety Code, unless the
license holder has written authorization of the hospital or nursing
home administration, as appropriate;
(5) in an amusement park; or
(6) on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other
established place of religious worship. (c) A license holder commits an offense if the license
holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun
under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code,
regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, at any meeting of a
governmental entity.
(d) A license holder commits an offense if, while
intoxicated, the license holder carries a handgun under the
authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless
of whether the handgun is concealed.
(e) A license holder who is licensed as a security officer
under Chapter 1702, Occupations Code, and employed as a security
officer commits an offense if, while in the course and scope of the
security officer's employment, the security officer violates a
provision of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code.
(f) In this section:
(1) "Amusement park" means a permanent indoor or
outdoor facility or park where amusement rides are available for
use by the public that is located in a county with a population of
more than one million, encompasses at least 75 acres in surface
area, is enclosed with access only through controlled entries, is
open for operation more than 120 days in each calendar year, and has
security guards on the premises at all times. The term does not
include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or
walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.
(2) "License holder" means a person licensed to carry
a handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code.
(3) "Premises" means a building or a portion of a
building. The term does not include any public or private driveway,
street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other
parking area.
(g) An offense under Subsection (a), (b), (c), (d), or (e)
is a Class A misdemeanor, unless the offense is committed under
Subsection (b)(1) or (b)(3), in which event the offense is a felony
of the third degree.
(h) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (a) that
the actor, at the time of the commission of the offense, displayed
the handgun under circumstances in which the actor would have been
justified in the use of deadly force under Chapter 9.

Text of subsection as added by Acts 2007, 80th Leg., R.S., Ch. 1214,
§ 2

(h-1) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsections (b)
and (c) that the actor, at the time of the commission of the
offense, was:
(1) an active judicial officer, as defined by Section
411.201, Government Code; or
(2) a bailiff designated by the active judicial
officer and engaged in escorting the officer.

Text of subsection as added by Acts 2007, 80th Leg., R.S., Ch. 1222,
§ 5

(h-1) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsections
(b)(1), (2), and (4)-(6), and (c) that at the time of the commission
of the offense, the actor was:
(1) a judge or justice of a federal court;
(2) an active judicial officer, as defined by Section
411.201, Government Code; or
(3) a district attorney, assistant district attorney,
criminal district attorney, assistant criminal district attorney,
county attorney, or assistant county attorney.
(i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply
if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06.
(j) Subsections (a) and (b)(1) do not apply to a historical
reenactment performed in compliance with the rules of the Texas
Alcoholic Beverage Commission.

Added by Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 229, § 4, eff. Sept. 1, 1995.
Amended by Acts 1997, 75th Leg., ch. 165, § 10.04, eff. Sept. 1,
1997; Acts 1997, 75th Leg., ch. 1261, § 26, 27, eff. Sept. 1,
1997; Acts 2001, 77th Leg., ch. 1420, § 14.833, eff. Sept. 1,
2001.

Amended by:
Acts 2005, 79th Leg., Ch. 976, § 3, eff. September 1, 2005.
Acts 2007, 80th Leg., R.S., Ch. 1214, § 2, eff. June 15,
2007.
Acts 2007, 80th Leg., R.S., Ch. 1222, § 5, eff. June 15,
2007.

Yes sir I finally read far enough line and found it. Thanks

[The Annoyed Man]

Yeah, I think you posted just before I did. Sorry. I didn't mean to beat a dead horse.

[rgunn]

Yeah, I think you posted just before I did. Sorry. I didn't mean to beat a dead horse.

Well at least the horse doen't mind

[casingpoint]

In view of what the Supreme Court is now most likely to rule in Heller v. D.C., perhaps the rules are going to change:

History shows that individuals were expected and sometimes even required to have their own arms. At the time of the Revolution, the law actually required people to keep and bear their own arms. For example, in 1770 the law of Georgia required men to carry a rifle or pistol to church. It further required the church officials to search each parishioner to make sure that each had on his person a gun and was therefore in full compliance with the law. In 1792, immediately following the passage of the Second Amendment, a federal law was enacted which required all able-bodied men in the United States to possess his own firearm. It is a well settled legal principle that legislation passed directly after the passage of a Constitutional Amendment should be given a great deal of weight when the courts are interpreting the scope of the Amendment. http://www.saf.org/LawReviews/Harman1.htm

[jnkirk1974]

I carry in my church every Sunday. All of the elders that I know are also very supportive of it.

[thejtrain]

I fully intend to carry (when I get my plastic ) every time I'm in church. After Denver/CO Springs, it's the only group setting I'm ever in that is a likely target for non-random shooting sprees. I'm probably not articulating this very well. If you consider where these madmen strike, we all know they like gun-free zones, but look at the actual incidents and the motivations we've heard about after the fact. Schools seem random (just maladjusted kids who want to be famous - not necessarily because they're going after someone specific), malls seem random (unless that guy in Omaha really really really had a problem with women's shoes), etc. But the two churches in CO were attacked because they were churches - they weren't random at all, the guy had a concrete motivation for going after a church in general and at least one of those churches in particular.

JT

[Familyman1993]

Ditto here, I church carry all the time. Pastor has been advised as a courtesy and is very supportive.

[mr surveyor]

In my Sunday School class there are 6 CHL's out of 14 regulars, and about 20 actual members. There are 4 of us that always carry. Some of us are encouraging others to follow in becomming an "Armed and Polite Society".

[thejtrain]

Ditto here, I church carry all the time. Pastor has been advised as a courtesy and is very supportive.

I certainly understand the courtesy aspect, but I'd be nervous about volunteering that information unless I already knew ahead of time what his/the church's stance is. Volunteering that piece of data in an unknown situation is an invitation to receive verbal "do not carry here" notice, and by then it's too late. Maybe when I've been going to my church for longer I'll have a better idea (just moved here 18 months ago, took us ~5 mo. to find our new church home).

JT

[RHZig]

Well I know I have a Kel-Tec stuffed nicely into my pocket on Sundays.

And I think my girlfriend and her dad are the only ones who know.

[kauboy]

Bersa Thunder .380 CC tucked discretely into the inside jacket pocket. My wife is the only one that knows.

[The Annoyed Man]

Kimber Stainless Ultra Carry II, IWB on the left hip... ...except when I'm on stage with the band. Then I just leave it in the car 'cause it's too much hassle.