Prison grounds?

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GrillKing
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Re: Prison grounds?

#16

Post by GrillKing »

Charles L. Cotton wrote:I had to interview a witness that worked for my client before going to prison. I met with him at the prison in Cotulla, TX. Since "premises" is statutorily defined, I didn't think twice about leaving the gun in my car, until I got to the gate and saw a sign basically saying "no guns." I called the prison from outside the gate and the warden met me at my car, took the gun into the prison and told a guard to let me have it when I was leaving.

The warden thanked me for calling and letting me know about the gun, but they really didn't seem too concerned.

Chas.
Chas.,

My problem with this is the warden has no authority to do anything other than allow lawful carry by a CHL on the 'premises' as define in the Penal Code. Too many mayors, city councils, police chiefs, etc., think they can regulate CHL carry in their jurisdiction where the transportation of handguns by a CHL is clearly, explicitly and exclusively defined by the legislature.

Unfortunately, too many of these 'mini-legislators' seem to know that the threat (whether real or imagined) of a ride in the back of a patrol car is enough to persuade most CHL holders to not be able to exercise the right defined by the legislature.

There needs to be a way (2009???) to clear these types of clearly not legally enforcible situations when they arise.

Gary

KBCraig
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Re: Prison grounds?

#17

Post by KBCraig »

I can't find the reference now, but someone who works for TDC posted (either here, or on another gun forum) the TDC policy that allows employees to have personal firearms in personal or government vehicles, even when traveling on official business.

Anyone recall that?

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Re: Prison grounds?

#18

Post by dustyb »

I used to work for TDC, and still live about 15 miles from one of the units. When I worked there the housing situation was as jbirds described, employees were allowed to have firearms in the unit housing, but not in the BOQ's. I haven't worked there for about 10 years, but if memory serves me, they implemented a policy of allowing visitors to check firearms in at the Highway Gate because of the number of people carrying firearms after the CHL laws were passed. When LEO's visited, they checked their firearms in at the Radio Picket, they did not leave them in their cars. I have not worked there for 10 years, so I do not know what the current policy is. Even though there is probably a TDCJ policy, it probably is not consistant with state law and probably varies from unit to unit in reality.

GrillKing
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Re: Prison grounds?

#19

Post by GrillKing »

dustyb wrote:Even though there is probably a TDCJ policy, it probably is not consistant with state law and probably varies from unit to unit in reality.
That's really my beef, is that you can't depend on governmental agencies to follow the law so you can't plan adequately for your travels. If there were no carry permitted on the premises of a prison due to acts of the legislature, that is one thing. But the legislature says it is OK and it looks like many local units do their own thing. All I ask is for them to follow the law, like I do.

dustyb
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Re: Prison grounds?

#20

Post by dustyb »

I found this link on the TDCJ website dated November 2002.

http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/publication ... tation.PDF

page 11 basically says a CHL holder does not trespass on TDCJ property, if the handgun is secured in a lock vehicle, i.e. trunk, locked compartment. I am curious if this policy has been updated since the "car carry" law was enacted last September.

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Re: Prison grounds?

#21

Post by Right2Carry »

dustyb wrote:I found this link on the TDCJ website dated November 2002.

http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/publication ... tation.PDF

page 11 basically says a CHL holder does not trespass on TDCJ property, if the handgun is secured in a lock vehicle, i.e. trunk, locked compartment. I am curious if this policy has been updated since the "car carry" law was enacted last September.
That makes sense, Provided they don't have an updated version floating around somewhere.
“Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference in the world. But, an American Soldier doesn't have that problem". — President Ronald Reagan, 1985

GrillKing
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Re: Prison grounds?

#22

Post by GrillKing »

dustyb wrote:I found this link on the TDCJ website dated November 2002.

http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/publication ... tation.PDF

page 11 basically says a CHL holder does not trespass on TDCJ property, if the handgun is secured in a lock vehicle, i.e. trunk, locked compartment. I am curious if this policy has been updated since the "car carry" law was enacted last September.
dustyb, thanks. That is interesting, but that policy is still not compliant with state law. State law says a CHL can carry on their person (where carry is allowed) or in their vehicle and it doesn't have to be locked in the trunk. For a traveler to such a facility, their policy is livable, but it isn't compliant. Again, it is that all these state agencies think (actually they do) make their own rules that don't follow the law. Like others have said though, I wouldn't fight it at the gate!!

Oh well.....

ManfromTexas
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Re: Prison grounds?

#23

Post by ManfromTexas »

Hi,

I'm new here but I can say I just got back from Beto I. They do search the car (more or less) and under the hood. I told them I had a CHL and they wanted to see the gun (a Glock), unload the weapon, count the bullets. Then they had me put the gun in the glove compartment and the ammo in the consol box. When leaving they inspected to make sure the gun was still there and the counted the ammo to make sure no rounds were missing. That was ok to me as they are conserened of a gun or ammo getting to the prisoners (It sure isn't a resort there!)

Right2Carry
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Re: Prison grounds?

#24

Post by Right2Carry »

ManfromTexas wrote:Hi,

I'm new here but I can say I just got back from Beto I. They do search the car (more or less) and under the hood. I told them I had a CHL and they wanted to see the gun (a Glock), unload the weapon, count the bullets. Then they had me put the gun in the glove compartment and the ammo in the consol box. When leaving they inspected to make sure the gun was still there and the counted the ammo to make sure no rounds were missing. That was ok to me as they are conserened of a gun or ammo getting to the prisoners (It sure isn't a resort there!)
Sounds like a good experiance, but I don't think we are required to notify a Prison Gaurd that we have a CHL or that we are carrying. I don't think they qualify as a LEO, which to my understanding is the only entity we must disclose to. It appears that their own rules state I can lock it up in the vehicle in a secured compartment before entering.

One has to wonder how they would react to finding a gun in your trunk when they search it.
“Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference in the world. But, an American Soldier doesn't have that problem". — President Ronald Reagan, 1985

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Re: Prison grounds?

#25

Post by dustyb »

[quote="Right2Carry

Sounds like a good experiance, but I don't think we are required to notify a Prison Gaurd that we have a CHL or that we are carrying. I don't think they qualify as a LEO, which to my understanding is the only entity we must disclose to. It appears that their own rules state I can lock it up in the vehicle in a secured compartment before entering.

One has to wonder how they would react to finding a gun in your trunk when they search it.[/quote]


One thing to keep in mind, you may not have to "legally" disclose you're carrying to a CO, but they are not required to let you on the unit. If you are visting an inmate, it is a good way to get removed from the visitation list. Although you may not "legally" have to inform a CO you are carrying, it would be prudent to do so. I personally think "securing" your firearm in a trunk, compartment, etc., is a pretty small accomodation to make at a prison. Understandably, prison staff are concerned with the security of their units and their employees. Although the law does not "require" it now, I personally would not mind seeing the law ammended to require securing your firearms at a prison.

Most CO's would be pretty calm finding a gun in your trunk, as long as it was not a surprise. Quite a few CO's and staff are CHL holders. I asked a friend who still works there, and employees are also allowed to have firearms in their vehicles as long as they are "secured".

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Re: Prison grounds?

#26

Post by GrillKing »

dustyb wrote:I personally think "securing" your firearm in a trunk, compartment, etc., is a pretty small accomodation to make at a prison. Understandably, prison staff are concerned with the security of their units and their employees. Although the law does not "require" it now, I personally would not mind seeing the law ammended to require securing your firearms at a prison.
I don't disagree, it's just that I don't get to pick and choose which laws I follow and neither should the warden. If we need to be more restrictive at prisons than what the law currently allows, we should change the law.

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Re: Prison grounds?

#27

Post by GrillKing »

Also, there are probably all kinds of other persons having legitimate business at the prison not related to visiting an inmate. Plus some people I would think would have a legal right to visit an inmate (lawyer) that cannot be denied like a it could be with friends or family. So, removing them from the visitors list isn't (shouldn't be) really a concern for them.

Again, I'm not saying the prison is wrong for what they want, just that they don't really have authority to restrict CHL carry above what the legislature has already set. If the law needs changing, we (the legislature) should change the law.

To me this is really more than the prison, I don't know or visit anyone there. The bigger picture is that governmental entities should follow the law, just as I do. I get penalized if I don't, there seems to be no consequence for them.

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Re: Prison grounds?

#28

Post by KBCraig »

GrillKing wrote:Plus some people I would think would have a legal right to visit an inmate (lawyer) that cannot be denied like a it could be with friends or family.
Lawyers don't have a "legal right to visit" clients in prison. I have seen lawyers denied visits, and I've seen legal visits terminated.
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Charles L. Cotton
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Re: Prison grounds?

#29

Post by Charles L. Cotton »

KBCraig wrote:
GrillKing wrote:Plus some people I would think would have a legal right to visit an inmate (lawyer) that cannot be denied like a it could be with friends or family.
Lawyers don't have a "legal right to visit" clients in prison. I have seen lawyers denied visits, and I've seen legal visits terminated.
I think the prison employees liked the offenders more than me! They made it real obvious that I was hardly an invited guest. I guess they thought I was his lawyer trying to get him out. The gun didn't bother anyone; my Bar Card certainly did. :lol:

Chas.
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seamusTX
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Re: Prison grounds?

#30

Post by seamusTX »

Charles L. Cotton wrote:I think the prison employees liked the offenders more than me!
The prisoners are the guards' "clients." The guards wouldn't have jobs if they didn't have prisoners.

- Jim
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