To Chamber or not to Chamber?

[Mike from Texas]

Thank you Charles, very helpful information and I will definitely practice, practice, practice. Unfortunately we don't live near you, we're in the D/FW area, but thank you very much for the offer of help.

In the D/FW area I suggest that you look into the tactical pistol courses at DFW Gun Range. It should put some of your fears to rest and teach you proper methods as well.

[txinvestigator]

Thank you Charles, very helpful information and I will definitely practice, practice, practice. Unfortunately we don't live near you, we're in the D/FW area, but thank you very much for the offer of help.

In the D/FW area I suggest that you look into the tactical pistol courses at DFW Gun Range. It should put some of your fears to rest and teach you proper methods as well.

Be careful who you take a course from there. Joe Elledge is the only currently qualified person to teach such a class. They have a real poser working over there you don't want to end up with.

[flintknapper]

Thank you Charles, very helpful information and I will definitely practice, practice, practice. Unfortunately we don't live near you, we're in the D/FW area, but thank you very much for the offer of help.

In the D/FW area I suggest that you look into the tactical pistol courses at DFW Gun Range. It should put some of your fears to rest and teach you proper methods as well.

Be careful who you take a course from there. Joe Elledge is the only currently qualified person to teach such a class. They have a real poser working over there you don't want to end up with.

Even with a Glock 40?

[fm2]

Kitty, check you PM box.

[thenavarro]

I now carry chamber loaded. At least that way, you have one shot ready to go, which protects against the very smaill percentage of that first bullet failing to feed due to any reason when you rack the slide.

Mike

[tomc]

Kitty: Check your PM box again for another message.

[Liko81]

It all depends on the type of pistol. I personally would not carry a 1911 condition 1 (cocked and locked), meaning the next-fastest, next-safest mode is condition 3 (hammer down on empty chamber, safety off). Rack the slide and you're at condition zero.

On a double-action, I'd chamber. I have a Ruger P95 I OC around the house, and when in the holster it's loaded, chambered, hammer down, safety on. The safety is reversed from a 1911's (up->fire) but as it was my first pistol I am very familiar with it, and you thumb off, pull the trigger and it goes BANG. Same if there is no safety, like a Glock; there are plenty of safety mechanisms in that gun that I'd have no reservations carrying chambered (I however do not care for Glocks in general, I find issue with the square grip, bracket sights and impossible slide release).

[lawrnk]

A definitive answer to this can be ascertained from tactical training schools, I do not know of any that train without a round chambered.

As well as most policemen I know

[nuparadigm]

... there is no safety, like a Glock; ,,, .

Actually, a Glock has three safties:
1. Trigger Safety
2. Firing Pin Safety
3. Drop Safety

[txinvestigator]

It all depends on the type of pistol. I personally would not carry a 1911 condition 1 (cocked and locked), meaning the next-fastest, next-safest mode is condition 3 (hammer down on empty chamber, safety off).

That is extremely dangerous to get the 1911 in that condition, and it nothing but a rock.

A modern 1911 has three safeties that must be defeated to fire from condition 1.

The 1911 is desigened to be and completely safe to carry condition 1.

[briggs]

Is the reason you do not carry with a loaded chamber because you are concerned with repercussions from an encounter, or that you are not entirely comfortable with carrying a loaded pistol?

If it is the first, only you can work that out. If it is the second, perhaps some training.

I carry a striker fired pistol with a loaded chamber, in a holster design that covers the trigger guard area. (almost all do) I don't worry about an A.D.

For my part, I check the chamber once in the morning when I put it on just because I do that to any gun I pick up, once I verify the round is chambered, thats it.

If I have to defend, I already know what I am going to do, and what is going to trigger my response. An empty chamber is not part of my plans.

In the time it takes to chamber a round, the opportunity to win may lost if you only have a second to beat the BG.

What may also be useful (and fun!) is attending a local IDPA or IPSC match in your area. You don't need much gear and it is good practice, especially IDPA for CCW folks. Low round count, somewhat realistic scenarios.

You get some pressure, too, in a match situation, it's almost unavoidable....you find out pretty fast what works and what doesn't. Better to find out in a simulation. Plus, the IDPA guys are all great guys.

Be safe and good luck with your decision.

[Skiprr]

Good post.

[Lindy]

For many years, back when the 1911 was the pistol of the military, an NCO regularly - almost every working day - threw a cocked-and-locked 1911 over a six foot wall which separated two firing bays on an indoor range in the Pentagon, to demonstrate that the 1911 was drop safe.

It never fired.

Any gun that can be made to fire at all can be made to fire (1) at the wrong time, (2) in the wrong place, (3) in the wrong direction, and (4) for the wrong reasons. The fool's errand of attempting to manufacture 'safe' guns invariably results in the creation of impotent guns. -- John Farnam

John Moses Browning designed the 1911 to be carried in condition one, with a round in the chamber and the safety on. Carrying that pistol, for defensive purposes, in any other condition is foolish.

[Liko81]

Is the reason you do not carry with a loaded chamber because you are concerned with repercussions from an encounter, or that you are not entirely comfortable with carrying a loaded pistol?

If it is the first, only you can work that out. If it is the second, perhaps some training.

If this was directed at me, note that I only applied this to 1911s. This is based on a few experiences I've had with them where the safety had been nudged off, and cocked and locked became condition zero without any knowledge of such by the handler. The only UD I've seen that wasn't complete and utter user idiocy happened on a 1911 where the safety was nudged off.

Condition 3 is NOT unsafe. Condition 2 is the unsafe mode; hammer down on a chambered round, safety ON. In that condition on a SA 1911 not only do you have to cock the hammer, but without a trigger block a dropped gun can discharge. In Condition 3 all you have to do is rack the slide. If you don't have time to do that you're probably not going to get a shot off anyway.

Like I said, I'm perfectly comfortable carrying a chambered DA pistol. I quite simply, from experience, do not trust 1911 safeties. That's a personal thing, and you will probably not convince me otherwise.

Actually, a Glock has three safties:
1. Trigger Safety
2. Firing Pin Safety
3. Drop Safety

I should have been clearer; a Glock has no MANUAL safety. There are integral safeties that, as the rest of my sentence you quoted says, make Glocks VERY safe to carry chambered, and if I liked Glocks I'd have no qualms carrying one. Just not a fan of the feel.

[txinvestigator]

So what if the safety gets "knocked off" on a 1911? it still will NOT fire unless you are gripping the weapon enough to deactivate the grip safety AND you press the trigger. If the safety was "nudged off, and the operator unintentionally fired the weapon what was his finger doing on the trigger since he did not intend to fire? The thumb safety on a 1911 is NOT a substitute for safe gun handling.

condition 2 is unsafe because it requires one to lower the hammer manually. The gun was not designed for this. And the safety will not engage on MY 1911s with the hammer down.