Elderly man fatally shoots 2 reported burglars--NEWS FLASH!!

[TEXASGIANT]

I just know that this will spill the swill in this pot but I gotta ask.
If I have the means, opportunity, ability and authority to "dispatch"
a couple of thugs and don't, and they go down the street and hit another
target or hurt someone.
I know there would be a terrible moral burden on me personally but has
anyone ever been liable for not taking action?
If a person knows that the potential outcome of his action is death
and the value of what he is after is $27.50 then that is the price he put
on his own head or the value of his life to him.
Why should it be so expensive to do the right thing?
We don't care if they respect us as long they fear us.
Just my stray round from the island.
God bless Joe

[McKnife]

Just saw on the news that some racist guy called the Harris County DA's office anonymously and left a messages of death threats for Joe Horn if he isn't found guilty!

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5366665.html

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22189172

[FightinAggieCHL]

That's ridiculous. I hope this gives ammo to the defense in some way.

[McKnife]

I've been looking, but I cannot find the actual recording... supposedly it's several minutes long and very graphic.

Can they [police] track phone calls? At least find a location?

[Keith B]

I've been looking, but I cannot find the actual recording... supposedly it's several minutes long and very graphic.

Can they [police] track phone calls? At least find a location?

Unless they a trap on the number to begin with, it is doubtful. However, there may have been a standing trap order on that line. If so, they will at least get the originating number and track from there.

The coroner is saying both of the guys were shot in the back and that a plain clothes officer witnessed the shootings. Not looking good for his side between the 911 audio and the new findings. I think Mr. Horn is going to have quite a bit of 'splainin' to do.

[FightinAggieCHL]

Here's a pretty good interview with Mr. Horn's attorney.



They are taking the stance that he was going outside to "gather information for the Pasadena Police Department."

Not a bad call. This lawyer seems really good.

[Lykoi]

Here's a pretty good interview with Mr. Horn's attorney.



They are taking the stance that he was going outside to "gather information for the Pasadena Police Department."

Not a bad call. This lawyer seems really good.

interesting stance from the attorney.. the fear for his life stemmed possibly from the 911 operator's insistence that if he went outside his life would be in danger.


I'm not about to call Joe a criminal... probably not the most intelligent actions possible... but by no means against the law... I'm not about to confront two unknown, possibly armed, criminals trying to "get away". I advocate staying in the house and calling the police... when you go outside "armed" to investigate, you're now in the "danger zone" and the police won't necessarily stop and ask your intentions upon arriving on the scene... Joe made a questionable call as far as common sense goes in my book, but i don't find him criminal.

[KBCraig]

interesting stance from the attorney.. the fear for his life stemmed possibly from the 911 operator's insistence that if he went outside his life would be in danger.

<larrythecableguy>
I don't care who you are, that's good lawyerin' rite chere, by goll!
</larrythecableguy>

Watching a good lawyer work PR spin (no offense, Chas., et al.!) is like driving past a fatal car wreck: you can't help but watch, even if you have to choke back your supper.

I think the perfect pre-law path for a defense attorney would be a sociopath majoring in Literature: no conscience or sense of guilty, and a highly developed skill for willing suspension of disbelief.

[smokin]

Someone from the Pasadena police was on the news last night and according to him a plainclothes officer rolled up in an unmarked car and saw everything that happened.

[FightinAggieCHL]

I'm interested to see what the plainclothes has to say about what happened.

I would imagine that Mr. Horn's attorney is too, seein as how his testimony will likely determine the outcome of this case.

[Big Dom]

Ouch not looking good for Joe. If nothing else this possibly opens him up to a civil suit. I won't go into how I feel about it as I've allready done that but the more facts come out the more it looks to me like he just should have stayed inside.

http://www.myfoxhouston.com/myfox/pages ... geId=3.2.1

HOUSTON -- The state senator who wrote Texas' Castle Doctrine said Monday that he does not think the case of a Pasadena homeowner killing two men he believed to be burglarizing a neighbor's home falls under the law's provisions.

Republic Sen. Jeff Wentworth, of San Antonio, authored the bill, which protects citizens from prosecution when they use deadly force if they are inside their homes or cars.

Pasadena homeowner Joe Horn killed the two burglary suspects -- identified as Hernando Torres (also known as Miguel Antonio DeJesus), 38, and Diego Ortiz, 30 -- on Nov. 14 as he watched them break into his next-door neighbor's home.

"I don't believe under the facts that I understand about (this) case, and I don't know all the facts ... it doesn't appear to me that (the Castle Doctrine) would apply to (this) case," Wentworth said during an interview Monday on FOX 26 Morning News.

The senator said he thinks there may be other provisions in state law that will be considered by the Harris County district attorney and grand jury.

Wentworth said the Castle Doctrine is designed to do three things:

* Designed to create a presumption that anyone who breaks into your house, your motor vehicle or your place of business is intending to cause serious bodily injury or death so that you can use whatever force you feel is necessary.
* Gives the property owner the absolute right to stand and defend yourself and property, and use whatever force you feel is necessary.
* Provides civil ammunity from a lawsuit by the criminal attacker and his or her family if they decide to file a civil lawsuit.

Family and friends of the slain burglary suspects called for justice again Sunday night. Horn confronted the suspects in his yard after he saw them leaving a neighbor's property. An autopsy showed the men were shot in the back.

"I told you guys that one the first day of the press conference. It's no surprise to me. The thing that bothers me is why (Horn) is not in jail. That's a big issue for me," Stephanie Storey, who was engaged to one of the men killed, said during a news conference Sunday.

Police now say that a plain-clothes officer witnessed the shooting.

[Lykoi]

I think the perfect pre-law path for a defense attorney would be a sociopath majoring in Literature: no conscience or sense of guilty, and a highly developed skill for willing suspension of disbelief.

I'm about to finish a degree in English Lit not quit a sociopath however. I've also got a philosophy degree... which could possibly influence a sociopathic state

[WarHawk-AVG]

Autopsy: Burglary Suspects Shot In Back
By Ryan Korsgard

POSTED: 5:40 pm CST December 7, 2007
UPDATED: 6:19 pm CST December 7, 2007


HOUSTON -- An autopsy showed two burglary suspects were shot in the back allegedly by a Pasadena neighbor who witnessed their crime, KPRC Local 2 reported Friday. The suspects were also in this country illegally, according to authorities.

Pasadena police said suspects Diego Ortiz and Hernando Torres should not have been in the United States. Police said they made the discovery while investigating the fatal shootings of the two men from Colombia using multiple names.

Pasadena police spokesman Capt. Bud Corbett said, "We understand that one of the suspects originally identified as DeJesus, later identified as Hermano Torres, was incidentally deported in 1999 back to Colombia."


Police said Torres was arrested in 1994 and charged with possession of cocaine with the intent to deliver. He got a 25-year sentence, started serving time in prison, but was paroled and deported back to Colombia in 1999.

Corbett said, "Their alien status doesn't really change anything about what we do."

The autopsies showed the suspects were shot in the back. Police first thought the chest and side wounds were the bullets' entrances. Instead, police said, they were the exit wounds.

Pasadena resident Joe Horn said he shot and killed the two men after he saw them breaking into his neighbor's home.

The 911 call taker repeatedly told Horn not to shoot. Some in Pasadena say no one would have been shot had they not broken the law.

Manuel Palomarez said, "They've broken the law twice over -- once being illegal here and twice breaking and entering. It doesn't matter."

New Black Panther leader Quanell X has protested in front of Horn's home. He wants Horn to face murder charges.

Quanell X said, "We understand clearly that they were in the country illegally. But that's for the immigration and ICE officials to handle. Mr. Horn, what he did was murder. He shot both men in the back."

Horn's attorney did not wish to comment for this story.

My, my, my, look how the pendulum swings. A little science and crime scene investigations will be able to figure out exactly how far and the exact location that the suspects were shot. Size of the wounds, ballistics of his shotgun and ammo, blood splatter patterns, ammo shots into the building or on property. With computer software so prevalent in CSI, the evidence will not lie. Just have to match it with the shooters statements and so which is more credible.

Autopsy report
The wounded man crossed the street, collapsed and died, authorities said. At the same time, the other man had turned and ran away from Horn.

Horn swung his shotgun around after shooting the first man and fired at the second one after he entered the neighbor's yard, investigators said.

He was hit in the back but continued running until collapsing a few hundred yards down the street, Corbett said.

According to a final ruling, Ortiz died of shotgun wounds to his neck and torso, said Ellie Wallace, an investigator at the Harris County Medical Examiner's Office.

The report said that Torres died of shotgun wounds to his torso and upper left extremity.

Wallace could not confirm whether the men were shot in the back, saying the autopsy report only indicated they were shot in the torso.

Neither suspect was armed, but one had a "center punch," a 6-inch pointed metal tool, in his pocket that might be used as a weapon, authorities said.

Also, they were carrying a sack filled with more than $2,000 in cash and assorted jewelry believed taken in the burglary, police said.

yah...thats not a weapon huh?

Funny how a plain clothes officer witnessed the whole thing...however DIDN'T arrest Joe ON THE SPOT for murder!!!!!!

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5362232.html

The media really needs to stop their slanted anti-gun butthattery before they really start to upset me!

[MikeJ]

There's been some discussion of sections 9.40 - 9.43 of the Penal Code, but I'm surprised that no one has mentioned Chapter 14 of the Code of Criminal Procedure:

Art. 14.01. OFFENSE WITHIN VIEW. (a) A peace officer or any other person [emphasis mine], may, without a warrant, arrest an offender when the offense is committed in his presence or within his view, if the offense is one classed as a felony or as an offense against the public peace.
(b) A peace officer may arrest an offender without a warrant for any offense committed in his presence or within his view.

Burglary of a home is a felony, by the way.

Art. 14.05. RIGHTS OF OFFICER. In each case enumerated where arrests may be lawfully made without warrant, the officer or person making the arrest [emphasis mine] is justified in adopting all the measures which he might adopt in cases of arrest under warrant, except that an officer making an arrest without a warrant may not enter a residence to make the arrest unless:
(1) a person who resides in the residence consents to the entry; or
(2) exigent circumstances require that the officer making the arrest enter the residence without the consent of a resident or without a warrant.

And what measures can a citizen use when making an arrest for a felony committed in his view? Well:

Art. 15.24. WHAT FORCE MAY BE USED. In making an arrest, all reasonable means are permitted to be used to effect it. No greater force, however, shall be resorted to than is necessary to secure the arrest and detention of the accused.

Despite anything that the communists in media and government might say, there is no law against vigilantism. We are not required by law to watch idly as our neighbors' homes are looted. To the contrary, the law empowers Texans to arrest offenders who commit felonies in their view, although it does not require citizens who are not peace officers to do so.

Mr. Horn repeatedly said that he intended to stop (synonymous with arrest) the burglars. He might have used more force than necessary. If so, then he would be subject to a civil suit, just as any police officer would. There should, however, be no question of criminal charges.

Of course, I'm not a lawyer...

[Doug.38PR]

As said....Horn got the job done

It's been my understanding that Rosenthal decided weeks ago NOT to press charges...now I am hearing he is going to bring it before the grand jury to let them decide....what's the truth?