CHL presented as 2nd ID - it was a first for me :)

CHL discussions that do not fit into more specific topics

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KBCraig
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Re: CHL presented as 2nd ID - it was a first for me :)

#16

Post by KBCraig »

stevie_d_64 wrote: uh-ohhh...

So all this time that I go to visit a "friend" in a federal detention facility in Beaumont (they are in the "camp" facility) where I am not subject to a "stop" before I park my vehicle, go "into" the building facility to check in and conduct my visit...

I know before hand that it might not be a good thing to take a firearm inside, so if I leave it locked inside a safe, and then lock that inside a vehicle, is that not rendering the weapon "inacessable" to anyone who does not have the key to first get in the vehicle, much less the key to open the safe...

I have only heard, yet not confirmed, that if I do these two things, I can enter the property (premises) of that federal facility, not undergoing "any" scrutiny before I park my vehicle, lock everything up, and only take my drivers license, and some pocket change for the vending machines, and conduct my visit???
I haven't been to the Beaumont complex, but on your next visit, look for signs along at the entrance or driveway. The 18 USC 930 citation should be posted on a sign, warning all sorts of dire consequences for bringing guns, knives, explosives, metal-cutting tools, weapons, alcohol, or anything else without the permission of the warden. The verbiage will be similar to what's found on the "Notice to Visitors" form that you sign before visiting:

It is a Federal crime to bring upon the institution grounds any firearm, destructive device, ammunition, other object designed to be used as a weapon, narcotic drug, controlled substance, alcoholic beverage, currency, or any other object that threatens the order, discipline, or security of a prison, or the life, health, or safety of an individual without the knowledge and consent of the Warden. 18 U.S.C. §§ 1791 and 3571 provides a penalty of imprisonment for not more than twenty years, a fine of not more than $250,000 or both, to a person who provides, or attempts to provide, to an inmate any prohibited object. All persons entering upon these premises are subject to routine searches of their person, property (including vehicles), and packages. The Warden, upon reasonable suspicion that a person may be introducing contraband or demonstrating actions that might otherwise endanger institution safety, security, or good order, may request the person, as a prerequisite to entry, to submit to a visual search, pat search, urine surveillance test, breathalyzer test, or other comparable test. A visitor has the option to refuse any of the search or test or entrance procedures, with the result that the visitor will not be permitted entry to the institution.
NOTE: Your refusal of these procedures means that you will not be permitted entry to the institution, and you will be allowed to leave the institution property, unless there is a reason to detain and/or arrest you. The use of cameras or recording equipment without permission of the Warden is strictly prohibited; violators are subject to criminal prosecution. Once a visit with an inmate begins, if a visitor leaves the visiting area, the
visit will be terminated. Any exception must be approved by the visiting room officer.



Like the form says, visitors are not subject to a forced search, but anyone refusing must leave the grounds. If we have sufficient reason to believe that a visitor is in possession of contraband, we will effect an arrest, make the search, and call the FBI or Marshals to arrange charges and proper processing at the nearest jail.

In case you're wondering, in 14+ years I've never known of a visitor's vehicle being searched. The only arrests we've made have been when we've been warned a visitor had an outstanding felony warrant.

Kevin
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#17

Post by stevie_d_64 »

I apologize...This issue brings up some very difficult decisions I am going to have to make in the future, that regretably will effect others around me...

Its slightly frustrating...And if I make a stand on it, it can and will effect someone's situation...

So I'll be damned if I do and damned if I do not...

I don't appreciate being put into situations like this where it doesn't matter what I say or do, we're subservient to "acceptable oppression"...

And what I get from a lot of family members is: "Why do you have to be so hard-headed? Why don't you just do what they tell you to do!"

My response is: "Thanks for understanding why this is so wrong, and for your reasoned support..."

echhh, g-nite...
"Perseverance and Preparedness triumph over Procrastination and Paranoia every time.” -- Steve
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KBCraig
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#18

Post by KBCraig »

Oh, and I meant to add this: even employees can leave instead of being searched.

We don't search employees unless there is very, very good intelligence that a specific person will be in possession of a specific item at a specific time and place. But stupid criminals will be stupid criminals, even when they work for the government, and "You don't mind if I look in your truck, do you? You don't have anything to hide, do you?" seems to get 'em every time.

Thankfully, we hire a pretty high class of folks here. I've only known of three employee searches in 14 years, and only one of them produced anything (a fifth of vodka in his truck).

Kevin

1911Tom45
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#19

Post by 1911Tom45 »

I thought that the CHL was not supposed to be used as a form of ID, other than to a peace officer?????
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#20

Post by txinvestigator »

1911Tom45 wrote:I thought that the CHL was not supposed to be used as a form of ID, other than to a peace officer?????
I am not aware of any law to that effect.
*CHL Instructor*


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Re: CHL presented as 2nd ID - it was a first for me :)

#21

Post by wrt45 »

txinvestigator wrote:
wrt45 wrote: The relevant text comes from CFR 39, Ch 1, Part 232.1:

(l) Weapons and explosives. No person while on postal property may carry firearms, other dangerous or deadly weapons, or explosives, either openly or concealed, or store the same on postal property, except for official purposes.
CFR is the Code of Federal Regulations. However, looking further down the regulation, we see the following:

.........SNIP....................

If one answers "no" to all four questions, it seems that one falls within the exception to the federal ban on carrying in a federal facility. The answer to the first three questions seeks to resolve whether one is engaged in the "lawful carrying" of a firearm. The answer to the final question seeks to resolve whether one is carrying "incident to ... lawful purposes."

It is important to note that the term "Federal facility" does not include a federal court facility. Even with a valid concealed weapon or handgun license, it is a federal offense to bring a firearm into a federal court facility. Under this statute, the only persons who may lawfully carry in a federal court facility are federal, state, or local law enforcement officers on official duty, or a Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if authorized to possess the firearm.[/u]
Thats what I really like about this board........ask a question or make a statement and you get all kinds of input, but not a lot of opinions without support. You get the whole nine yards...........

I think this is pretty close to the conversations I recall when the post office question came up in my first instructor's school.

Its fascinating reading and I enjoy the info and the debate, but in the end I'll stand by what I wrote at first: sounds like a test case in the making, and I don't want to be the test.............

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#22

Post by dolanp »

I'll believe that Gun Zone opinion when it's backed up by case law. Until then I think it's generally not a good idea to carry in there.
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Tom
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CHL for ID, a unique use

#23

Post by Tom »

I have been following this thread and the only thing I could have offered
up to now was using my CHL when early voting. The lady didn't show any
reaction at all, just checked the address and gave me a ballot.

Yesterday my wife returned from town after going through her short
training session for the Catholic Church Eucharistic Ministry for the Sick.
It allows her to bring Communion to those who cannot leave their
homes due to illness. Part of the training requires that a background
check be run to ensure that anyone in the Ministry has no criminal
record.
When that issue came up she took out her CHL and proceeded to tell the
head of the program what it took for her to obtain it. He looked at it,
handed it back, said it was sufficient.
She then completed the process and delivered her first Communion to a
sick neighbor last evening.
She also said it seemed obvious that it was the first CHL he had ever
seen.

King Regards,

Tom
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