Carrying a gun in Israel

[jiannichan]

I am currently in Israel on business, and am yet to see what I would term a "civilian" openly carrying. I've seen many soldiers and security (both male and female) carrying, but never what appears to be a person not employed in some type of official defense. I've been here two weeks on this trip, and was here four months earlier this year. That is not to say that I have not come across any that carry concealed.

I have discussed the fact that I carry a firearm (when in the United States) with many of my Israeli colleagues and friends. Funny thing is that most of my Israeli friends who have moved to the U.S. carry as well, but most of my Israeli friends who live here in Israel are very surprised that we feel the need/desire to carry in the U.S. Of all the people I know/work with/have discussed this with here in Tel Aviv, I have only met one person who has a license. SHE was issued a license when she was in the IL army about 15 years ago, and has maintained her license ever since. She does not carry on her person; she keeps her pistol at home. She lives in a sub-burb just north of Tel Aviv, and works in another sub-burb just north of Tel Aviv.

I was also told by several friends here that it is in fact difficult to get a carry permit, unless you are an Israeli citzen who lives near a Palestinian controlled area.

How do you see any civilians when you're in the office 90% of the time? Did they actually let you leave?

JK dude, see you back in the states in a week hopefully.

[PostShooter]

Since WWII--a relatively short period, historically speaking--we've seen societies previously imbued in firearm culture turn into capitulating, defenseless drones. Think Canada, Australia, England.

I'm going to go even further back and say that this phenomenon has been prevalent since WWI. I honestly believe that, as a result of the deaths of an entire generation at the hands of firearms, the British Commonwealth stepped back from guns as a mainstay of their freedoms, because of the carnage of battles like The Somme and Ypres. Thus breed the likes of Neville Chamberlain, pacifists who refuse to take up arms regardless of the consequences. Remember, the greater majority of Britons felt the same way he did at the moment (Peace in our time, etc.). It took someone like Winston Churchill to get the country to reluctantly once again take up arms and save their nation and culture. Once the war was over, the British basically gave up on weapons and self-defense, gave up its empire and promptly forgot what one of the underlying foundations of its freedoms sprang from - the ability to say "We're armed and we won't take sh*t from you. We are masters of our own fate. We will never submit to you."

Israel may trace the loss of its self-defense mentality to the recent accords with neighboring Arab states. The final nail would be its war with Lebanon a few years ago. The world had come to the conclusion, for good or ill, that even a few deaths in the defense of one's country is a few too many. When When the Israelis heard a couple of dozen of its countrymen had been killed in it's conflict, they almost rebelled, calling for an end to the conflict because of the relatively "high price" in casualties. Israel has learned to compromise its core values - for security. Values for which they had willingly upheld and fought for to gain independence and a continued sovereignty many decades ago.

So may, one day, go the USA. Once our nation finds that a "few casualties" is too high a price to pay for our freedoms, we will slowly decline, fearing to defend ourselves from those who would seek to harm us, because of the cost. The US should never fear to sacrifice or shed blood in order to protect our nation. If we do, we will follow the once-great British Empire into the abyss.

Sorry to go on for so long on this issue. I know it started as something as simple as a change in Israeli self-defense motivation. But it serves as a stark reminder of what will happen if we for one moment, one second, relax our vigilance.

[RHenriksen]

PostShooter - I think your thoughts are valid. I'd add that part of the problem in our current societies is a crisis of leadership. A lack of trust & faith in the competence of our leaders, their presentation of valid and accurate reasons why it's worth going to war, their lack of participation in the military either personally or through their own children, and so on.

[VMI77]

Since WWII--a relatively short period, historically speaking--we've seen societies previously imbued in firearm culture turn into capitulating, defenseless drones. Think Canada, Australia, England.

I'm going to go even further back and say that this phenomenon has been prevalent since WWI. I honestly believe that, as a result of the deaths of an entire generation at the hands of firearms, the British Commonwealth stepped back from guns as a mainstay of their freedoms, because of the carnage of battles like The Somme and Ypres. Thus breed the likes of Neville Chamberlain, pacifists who refuse to take up arms regardless of the consequences. Remember, the greater majority of Britons felt the same way he did at the moment (Peace in our time, etc.). It took someone like Winston Churchill to get the country to reluctantly once again take up arms and save their nation and culture. Once the war was over, the British basically gave up on weapons and self-defense, gave up its empire and promptly forgot what one of the underlying foundations of its freedoms sprang from - the ability to say "We're armed and we won't take sh*t from you. We are masters of our own fate. We will never submit to you."

Israel may trace the loss of its self-defense mentality to the recent accords with neighboring Arab states. The final nail would be its war with Lebanon a few years ago. The world had come to the conclusion, for good or ill, that even a few deaths in the defense of one's country is a few too many. When When the Israelis heard a couple of dozen of its countrymen had been killed in it's conflict, they almost rebelled, calling for an end to the conflict because of the relatively "high price" in casualties. Israel has learned to compromise its core values - for security. Values for which they had willingly upheld and fought for to gain independence and a continued sovereignty many decades ago.

So may, one day, go the USA. Once our nation finds that a "few casualties" is too high a price to pay for our freedoms, we will slowly decline, fearing to defend ourselves from those who would seek to harm us, because of the cost. The US should never fear to sacrifice or shed blood in order to protect our nation. If we do, we will follow the once-great British Empire into the abyss.

Sorry to go on for so long on this issue. I know it started as something as simple as a change in Israeli self-defense motivation. But it serves as a stark reminder of what will happen if we for one moment, one second, relax our vigilance.

I think you give the political class way too much credit. Real pacifism is rooted in deeply held principles and the political class is completely without scruples or principles. While events like WWI may have created an environment where a principled populace was receptive to hopeful notions of peace and tranquility, the end point of disarmament was achieved by the political classes' exploitation of this sentiment, not in response to it. The political class are ruthless proponents of violence when it serves their own interests; and in fact, the service of those interests is facilitated when they have a monopoly on the use of violence, which is part of the motivation for disarming citizens. The other political motivation for disarming citizens is to ensure dependency on the State. The only "principle" involved is the principle of acquiring and maintaining absolute power and control over those who are not part of the ruling class.

[PostShooter]

RHenriksen and VMI77,

You guys both bring something important to the table. Very well thought-out analysis. Thanks for your input on this. Stuff we all need to hear.

[philip964]

Sorry scroll down to the gun part. Couldn’t separate tweets.



Never should have restricted guns in the first place.

[Chemist45]

[philip964]

https://www.timesofisrael.com/comparing ... revealing/

More on gun and bullet restrictions in Israel.

What a shame this was allowed to happen.

The videos on line are heartbreaking as ordinary citizen families are targeted and executed for simply being Jewish.

[RoyGBiv]

Horse, Barn Door – Israel’s Minister of National Security Announces Relaxed Rules for Civilian Gun Ownership

Today I directed the Firearms Licensing Division to go on an emergency operation, in order to allow as many citizens as possible to arm themselves.

The plan will take effect within 24 hours, below are its main points:

1. Any citizen who meets the detailed tests for carrying a private firearm due to self-defense and serving the security forces, and is without a criminal or medical record, will be required to undergo a telephone interview instead of a physical interview, and will be able to receive permission to carry a firearm within a week. (Self-defense tests: residence in an eligible settlement, rifle veterans 07 and above, officers in the rank of lieutenant and above and combatants in the rank of major and above in the IDF and the security forces, service in special units, firefighters, policemen, and workers and volunteers in the rescue forces).

2. Any citizen who received a conditional permit to purchase a firearm and did not purchase a firearm during the year 2023 and the conditional license has expired, will be able to purchase a firearm now without the need to submit another application. The exemption will apply to about 4000 citizens.

3. Any citizen who deposited his weapon in the last six months due to failure to perform refresher training or renewal training, will be able to receive his weapon back. The exemption will apply to about 1800 citizens.

4. In addition, starting next Tuesday, conditional permits to carry firearms will be issued with a permit allowing the purchase of up to 100 bullets instead of 50 today.

All this in addition to the criteria change that should happen soon.

I thank the members of the Firearms Licensing Division, the Civil Response Department of the Israel Police and the employees of the Ministry of Health for the very important commitment that will allow as many citizens as possible to arm themselves and protect themselves and their environment when necessary.

[RoyGBiv]

The videos on line are heartbreaking as ordinary citizen families are targeted and executed for simply being Jewish.

Not a new phenomenon.

Any Jew who goes about unarmed (assuming not legally prohibited) is a fool.
Any Jew who thinks the government (any government) will suddenly appear in time to protect them from immediate danger is also a fool.

(I am Jewish, so, I know lots of these people).

[Paladin]

Back when the movie Red Dawn was released in the 80s the media said it was a total fantasy, but it happened in Israel:

Red Dawn Moment

Israel is a heavily defended, militarized nation and if this happened there it is could pretty much happen anywhere.

History has shown an armed & trained population of citizen soldiers is the best defense of life & liberty.

[Rafe]

History has shown an armed & trained population of citizen soldiers is the best defense of life & liberty.

And continues to be the best deterrent from a conventional-weapons homeland incursion. The Hamas attack was, it seems clearly, carefully planned in conjunction with Iran. And just as clearly, it took full advantage of the knowledge that the typical Israeli household had no firearm immediately available. There was no assault on militarized installations; the targets were civilians.

With perhaps 100 million more firearms in civilian hands than the number of people in the U.S., the statement attributed to Japan's Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto in WWII (whether he actually ever said it or not) has given foreign nations pause since 1812: "You cannot invade mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass."

That is, so long as we can preserve and protect the Second Amendment.

[philip964]

I remember it seems like in the ‘70’s every Israelis was a real life action hero, women as well. All incredibly proficient with firearms.

Something happened between then and now.

Yes, behind every blade of grass. Let’s not let that change.

I'm reading that 2 Kibbutz near the border, one was unarmed and over 100 civilians were murdered, the other was armed and the citizens killed two of the attackers who were repelled.

This may be the same Kibbutz.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... acred.html

Babies were beheaded.

Israeli soldiers shared details of unimaginable atrocities committed in a community where dozens of victims, including about 40 babies, were massacred by Hamas terrorists.

[Redneck_Buddha]

Unfortunately, Kibbutz Be'eri voted amongst the members to be a gun free zone, which is frankly unfathomable when you are that close to that many thousands of people who would love to see you dead.

[Rafe]

Unfortunately, Kibbutz Be'eri voted amongst the members to be a gun free zone, which is frankly unfathomable when you are that close to that many thousands of people who would love to see you dead.

And what they suffered was unbelievable. A Fox News reporter in-country said today that the Hamas terrorists went door-to-door. If they could gain entry, they executed everyone in the home, including small children no matter how young. If they couldn't quickly gain entry, they simply torched the home with everyone inside.