The gun show a few weeks ago. 30.06?

[Renegade]

I am not trying to be a jerk, but to claim I have been engaging in criminal activity for several decades, well I do take offense to that.

So, it is illegal for a non-CHL to carry a handgun in a gun show. People are not charged with UCW, but a lack of enforcement does not change the law.

The Texas Courts, as well as every LEO, DA, and other expert on the issue I have talked to, disagrees, but you are entitled to your opinion.

TPC §30.06 is enforceable at a gun show, if it's on private property as opposed to government-owned property.

Chas.

30.06 is only enforceable if you are carrying under CHL law. When I go to a gun show, I am not carrying under CHL Law, so it is not enforceable on me.

Your view creates an interesting dilemma. I myself do not subscribe to it, but those that do are admitting to committing multiple criminal acts if they possess handguns at a 30.06 gun show.

ETA:

Do not have my binder with all Texas Case Law, but here is one on-line cite from Halbrook's Baylor Law Review article:

http://www.guncite.com/journals/haltex.html#fnb220

The prohibition on carrying pistols is so draconian that judicially carved exceptions were inevitable. The constitution provides no legislative power to regulate the keeping on one's premises of commonly possessed arms such as pistols. By implication, on obtaining a pistol, one may carry it home by the nearest practicable route.[219] One may carry a pistol to and from a shop to have it repaired,[220] but the carrying must be without unreasonable delay.[221]

[219] See Kellum v. State, 66 Tex. Crim. 505, 147 S.W. 870 (1912).

[220] See Fitzgerald v. State, 52 Tex. Crim. 265, 106 S.W. 365 (1907); Magum v. State, 90 S.W. 31 (Tex. Crim. App. 1905).

[221] See Henson v. State, 158 Tex. Crim. 5,6, 252 S.W.2d 711 (1952).

The Kellum case is one of several Court Decisions which address the issue of obtaining a handgun and carrying it home and NOT being in violation.

[Renegade]

One more thing. For those that do not agree with me that you are not carrying under CHL law at a gun show, and thus 30.06 is enforceable, here is a simply way to neutralize it anyway:

Here is 30.06 law:

§ 30.06. TRESPASS BY HOLDER OF LICENSE TO CARRY CONCEALED
HANDGUN. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license
holder:
(1) carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, on property of another without effective consent;

Do this - just ask for effective consent. You will be surprised how easy it is to get it (it is a gun show after all!):

For example, after you check your gun and he gives it back, ask if it is OK to put it in your pocket (bag, purse, whatever). He will say "yes" (I know this from experience). Bingo. You just got effective consent to carry a handgun on a 30.06 place. Didn't bring a handgun? No problem - bring a bag or backpack and when entering ask if it is OK to put any handguns you acquire in the backpack. He will say "yes" (I know this from experience). Bingo. You just got effective consent to carry a handgun on a 30.06 place. 30.06 is now not enforceable on you, unless thye revoke their consent.

[Photoman]

it is illegal for a non-CHL to carry a handgun in a gun show. People are not charged with UCW, but a lack of enforcement does not change the law.

If I (a non-CHL for this example) take my revolver to the gun show to sell or trade it, I am UCW?

If I (a non-CHL for this example) take my revolver to the local gun store to sell or trade it, I am UCW?

[kauboy]

The last few Ft Worth shows have not been posted, but the one this last weekend - High Caliber - was properly posted.
Grrr walk back to car.

I filled out one of their drawing coupons at the door just to be able to write "Drop the 30.06 posting" on the front. I suggest we all do that, if you object to it.

I went to this one too. And I was appalled at what I saw when I walked down the steps. Last year no sign, this year BIG red and white sign with perfect format and all. "Ah man! And I parked so far too!"
I didn't think to do one of the drawing cards.

[KBCraig]

30.06 is only enforceable if you are carrying under CHL law. When I go to a gun show, I am not carrying under CHL Law, so it is not enforceable on me.

What law are you "carrying under", then?

*chirp*...*chirp*...*chirp*....

[Charles L. Cotton]

I am not trying to be a jerk, but to claim I have been engaging in criminal activity for several decades, well I do take offense to that.

So, it is illegal for a non-CHL to carry a handgun in a gun show. People are not charged with UCW, but a lack of enforcement does not change the law.

The Texas Courts, as well as every LEO, DA, and other expert on the issue I have talked to, disagrees, but you are entitled to your opinion.

TPC §30.06 is enforceable at a gun show, if it's on private property as opposed to government-owned property.

Chas.

30.06 is only enforceable if you are carrying under CHL law. When I go to a gun show, I am not carrying under CHL Law, so it is not enforceable on me.

Your view creates an interesting dilemma. I myself do not subscribe to it, but those that do are admitting to committing multiple criminal acts if they possess handguns at a 30.06 gun show.

ETA:

Do not have my binder with all Texas Case Law, but here is one on-line cite from Halbrook's Baylor Law Review article:

http://www.guncite.com/journals/haltex.html#fnb220

The prohibition on carrying pistols is so draconian that judicially carved exceptions were inevitable. The constitution provides no legislative power to regulate the keeping on one's premises of commonly possessed arms such as pistols. By implication, on obtaining a pistol, one may carry it home by the nearest practicable route.[219] One may carry a pistol to and from a shop to have it repaired,[220] but the carrying must be without unreasonable delay.[221]

[219] See Kellum v. State, 66 Tex. Crim. 505, 147 S.W. 870 (1912).

[220] See Fitzgerald v. State, 52 Tex. Crim. 265, 106 S.W. 365 (1907); Magum v. State, 90 S.W. 31 (Tex. Crim. App. 1905).

[221] See Henson v. State, 158 Tex. Crim. 5,6, 252 S.W.2d 711 (1952).

The Kellum case is one of several Court Decisions which address the issue of obtaining a handgun and carrying it home and NOT being in violation.

There's no reason to take offense, but that's your choice.

Show me a Texas case that holds TPC §46.02 is not applicable to gun shows. You won't find it, so show me where gun shows appear in TPC §46.15. You won't find that either.

The cases you cited referencing transport of a newly purchased handgun home, or to and from a gunsmith for repair are not on point with gun shows. Taking your gun to a gun show is not a necessary part of purchasing one, or having it repaired.

Since you're wrong about gun shows and TPC §46.02, you are also wrong about not carrying under the authority of your CHL when you are at a gun show. Thus, 30.06 signs can be effective at gun shows, if the show is on private property.

I'm not trying to argumentative, but it worries me that someone may rely upon your analysis to their detriment.

Chas.

[Charles L. Cotton]

One more thing. For those that do not agree with me that you are not carrying under CHL law at a gun show, and thus 30.06 is enforceable, here is a simply way to neutralize it anyway:

Here is 30.06 law:

§ 30.06. TRESPASS BY HOLDER OF LICENSE TO CARRY CONCEALED
HANDGUN. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license
holder:
(1) carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, on property of another without effective consent;

Do this - just ask for effective consent. You will be surprised how easy it is to get it (it is a gun show after all!):

For example, after you check your gun and he gives it back, ask if it is OK to put it in your pocket (bag, purse, whatever). He will say "yes" (I know this from experience). Bingo. You just got effective consent to carry a handgun on a 30.06 place. Didn't bring a handgun? No problem - bring a bag or backpack and when entering ask if it is OK to put any handguns you acquire in the backpack. He will say "yes" (I know this from experience). Bingo. You just got effective consent to carry a handgun on a 30.06 place. 30.06 is now not enforceable on you, unless thye revoke their consent.

I agree. If a 30.06 sign is enforceable because the gun show is on private property, you can legally enter if you are given permission to enter. I've said this in several other posts. It would be a violation of TPC §46.035(a) if you intentionally failed to conceal it.

Chas.

[Charles L. Cotton]

it is illegal for a non-CHL to carry a handgun in a gun show. People are not charged with UCW, but a lack of enforcement does not change the law.

If I (a non-CHL for this example) take my revolver to the gun show to sell or trade it, I am UCW?

If I (a non-CHL for this example) take my revolver to the local gun store to sell or trade it, I am UCW?

Yes, but the law is not enforced.

Chas.

[Photoman]

it is illegal for a non-CHL to carry a handgun in a gun show. People are not charged with UCW, but a lack of enforcement does not change the law.

If I (a non-CHL for this example) take my revolver to the gun show to sell or trade it, I am UCW?

If I (a non-CHL for this example) take my revolver to the local gun store to sell or trade it, I am UCW?

Yes, but the law is not enforced.

Chas.

That is amazing. All these years I've been misinformed? What law covers this issue? I need to look into this as I've been under the impression for years that having a handgun on or about ones person while directly to or from a transaction was not UCW.

[Renegade]

30.06 is only enforceable if you are carrying under CHL law. When I go to a gun show, I am not carrying under CHL Law, so it is not enforceable on me.

What law are you "carrying under", then?

*chirp*...*chirp*...*chirp*....

Go back and read my posts from the beginning - Case Law.

ETA:

Keep in mind CHL is only 12 years old, people were carrying at Gun Shows long before then. Charles and I may disagree if this is UCW or not, but I think we all agree folks have been going to gun shows and NOT carrying under CHL for a long time. In fact, there will be folks going to a gun show without A CHL this weekend and will be carrying a handgun on or about their person, and the Police at the door will not arrest them for UCW.

Case Law defines most of Texas Gun Laws. I know of over 100 cases. Al those wierd "traveling" stories you hear about (2 counties, overnight stay, etc.) are usually rooted in some Case Law decision.

[Charles L. Cotton]

it is illegal for a non-CHL to carry a handgun in a gun show. People are not charged with UCW, but a lack of enforcement does not change the law.

If I (a non-CHL for this example) take my revolver to the gun show to sell or trade it, I am UCW?

If I (a non-CHL for this example) take my revolver to the local gun store to sell or trade it, I am UCW?

Yes, but the law is not enforced.

Chas.

That is amazing. All these years I've been misinformed? What law covers this issue? I need to look into this as I've been under the impression for years that having a handgun on or about ones person while directly to or from a transaction was not UCW.

As Renegade said, most of us have been going to gun shows with handguns long before the CHL statute was passed in 1995. It was never prosecuted because people in law enforcement as well as prosecutors knew that gun shows would be impossible, if TPC §46.02 and its predecessors were enforced. I think they also knew that the Legislature would likely step in and change the law if they did, as gun shows are clearly a well-established Texas tradition. Only relatively recently have the anti's tried to portray gun shows as gathering places for criminals.

Choosing not to enforce any given statute is not unusual. Prior to 1995, most officers who caught certain people (especially women at night) with handguns in their cars or purses usually didn't make an arrest for UCW, if the person was otherwise "clean." Every time a LEO watches some make a "California stop" at a stop sign and doesn't issue a citation, they are choosing not to enforce a law.

The general prohibition on having a handgun on or about your person is found in TPC §46.02. (As of 9/1/07, it's narrower because of the passage of HB1815.) You then have to look at TPC 46.15 to see what persons, places and activities are excluded from the general prohibition in TPC §46.02. "Sporting" activities is very broad, but it isn't so broad as to include static gun shows. (Now, if we had something akin to boat shows on the water where we could shoot our guns while at the gun show, then that would be a different story.)

As far as having the gun on your person to and from a transaction such as purchasing or having a handgun repaired, it is more a matter of what the officer at the scene is going to do, based upon the evidence. I received a call from a gentleman in Houston who bought a pistol from a co-worker. That evening on the way home he was stopped for a traffic violation by an HPD officer. The officer asked if he had any weapons in the car and the driver said yes and told him he had just purchased it that day. Since he didn't have a receipt, the officer arrested him. (He should win because this occurred after HB823 "traveling presumption" passed.) Although not legally relevant, if he had a receipted dated that day, or if it had been in the trunk, the officer likely wouldn't have made the arrest.

Ironically, one of the hurdles we sometimes face when promoting pro-gun legislation is the argument that it isn't necessary, "since we don't enforce it anyway." This was the leading argument against the "Castle" Doctrine, with prosecutors loudly proclaiming, "we never prosecute for failure to retreat, so you don't need this law."

Chas.

[stevie_d_64]

I wouldn't object to them taking down the 30.06 signs if people could keep their "carry" piece in it's holster where it oughtta be.

I, again, say there oughtta be an area (stall, Port-a-John, whatever) for unloading/reloading...

And if you drop it in the pot, you'll get the gun "re-blued" for free!

[GrillKing]

And if you drop it in the pot, you'll get the gun "re-blued" for free!

At that point, it might no longer be my gun!!!

[Photoman]

As far as having the gun on your person to and from a transaction such as purchasing or having a handgun repaired, it is more a matter of what the officer at the scene is going to do, based upon the evidence.

Did the "car carry" law change this?

If someone buys a handgun at a gun show and carries it around the show before leaving, are they breaking the law?

[Charles L. Cotton]

As far as having the gun on your person to and from a transaction such as purchasing or having a handgun repaired, it is more a matter of what the officer at the scene is going to do, based upon the evidence.

Did the "car carry" law change this?

If someone buys a handgun at a gun show and carries it around the show before leaving, are they breaking the law?

That's a good point. It didn't change law about having it on you outside the car, other than the fact that going directly to your motor vehicle isn't a violation of the law.

Chas.