Elderly man fatally shoots 2 reported burglars--NEWS FLASH!!

[Skiprr]

FYI, KTRK just played portions of the actual 911 call. The emergency operator was male. Joe Horn took the phone with him as he left his house, and you can clearly hear him shout, "Move, you're dead!" a few seconds before the three gunshots.

It'll be intersting to see how this plays out.

[Lucky45]

Joe Horn took the phone with him as he left his house, and you can clearly hear him shout, "Move, you're dead!" a few seconds before the three gunshots.

I almost fell out of my chair when I read this. It is one thing to speculate about what was said, then to make the mistake of having yourself on a recording. Priceless.

[Lucky45]

You have to hear this 911 call. It is the ENTIRE 911 CALL, from start to finish. Go to http://www.khou.com/video/index.html?nvid=193240&shu=1

This is INCREDIBLE. You have to HEAR THIS!!!!! Answers all your questions? and then some!!!!!!!

[stevie_d_64]

You have to hear this 911 call. It is the ENTIRE 911 CALL, from start to finish. Go to http://www.khou.com/video/index.html?nvid=193240&shu=1

This is INCREDIBLE. You have to HEAR THIS!!!!! Answers all your questions? and then some!!!!!!!

Sure does...

This is a prime example of how not to say certain things when you are talking to the 911 folks...

Not all of what the man said was that bad, but there were a few things that were very clear that he should not have said...

I believe now that this is out there, the Pasadena or Harris County DA is going to have a hard time "not" no-billing this one simply on the things the man said...

This is unfortunate, and should be an example of what not to do...Not all of what he did was bad, but a few things he said are what is going to get him into some trouble...

I also believe that the two dead burglars history needs to be weighed into the equation as well...

But yeah, this recording is going to be a big yoke to shake if the man is going to shake the consequences of what he did...

He'll still have to live the rest of his life knowing he took two lives as well...And that he'll never shake that off...

[txinvestigator]

Wow, very incredible. Notice how as soon as he shot them officers magically appeared?

That's crap.

What? What are you suggesting?

Now, after hearing the entire 911 call, I do believe the old man was being a vigilante. Not necessarily that he should be charged, but that he did not have his head on his shoulders. He should not have put himself at risk like that

I would not have done that; however, it appears to me he was within his legal justifications.

Ya'll remember the 911 tape of the grandma who shot the ol boy who had hidden in her house?

[stevie_d_64]

Ya'll remember the 911 tape of the grandma who shot the ol boy who had hidden in her house?

Yep...She's a really nice lady...Met her at the TSRA convention I believe year before last...

[stevie_d_64]

I would not have doe that; however, it appears to me he was within his legal justifications.

I agree...I believe what he said might put him under a tighter scrutiny as a result of his actions...

Even though I understand we are not all law enforcement officers, there was a time in recent history that it was not frowned upon to intervene (knowing and understanding the risks in doing so) in a situation like this...And that over time the criminal mindset in this country has developed this assumption (what should be a false assumption) that no one is going to stop them from conducting criminal acts...

Thats why I agree with the justification of this mans actions, but wish he had not said some of the things that might get him into trouble, and outweigh the benefits of what he did, even though it cost two people their lives...

So I stand with the action taken...The criminal element in this country needs to understand that their are people out there who have had it...And rightfully so, and had better start listening and obeying anyone who catches them in the act...I know I would not have discharged my weapon in this case unless something else they did came into play...

And they had better be either fast, lucky or stupid, because I know I am faster, don't need to be lucky, and am a little sharper than the average bowling ball in the bag...

Because I am comfortable where my boundaries are, and they are well defined and ingrained into my mindset in how I approach all aspects of self-defense, the law, and moral clarity...

Maybe I just need to shut up...

[frankie_the_yankee]

FWIW, I think this guy pushed the envelope. Judging by what's on the 911 tape, I think he's in trouble.

I know that there's no way I would have done what he did. I might have gone outside and confronted the BG's, but I would not have shot them unless they charged me or did some other stupid thing like that.

I couldn't tell from the 911 audio whether the BG's ran towards him or away from him when he challenged them. But I did notice that the time between him ordering them to stop and the sound of the first shotgun blast was very short. But this may mean nothing as I have no idea of what the distances were.

If I ordered them to stop and they simply ran off, I would have let them go. When the cops got there, I would do my best to point out where they went.

It's true that we don't know exactly what took place when the guy went outside. With all the facts, it might look different. But right now, I don't like this one.

[mrvmax]

I agree that we shouldn't have to put up with the criminal element, but I am not going to risk ruining my life and that of my family to save some property. It's a fact that someof us will eventually face. Is it worth taking the risk of losing everything I have to save some property? You cannot replace a life and I would not hesitate to prevent loss of life, but for property I will probably never risk it all. I think the things he said on this call will unfortunately be his downfall. This is the very reason why I browse forums and read as much as I can. I want to be prepared and know what I can and cannot do. We need to be prepared long before we ever reach a situation like this.

[Venus Pax]

His 911 call: Wow. This guy had a serious case of diarrhea of the mouth. After listening to the entire thing, I can't help but wonder if this older fellow didn't talk himself into murder or negligent homicide charges.

If it weren't for his mouth, I think his age would have worked in his favor. Stevie, you have an excellent point about the fact that you, as a 43-year-old man, would be judged more harshly than a 70-year-old man. It may not be completely fair, but a jury would look upon a senior citizen differently than they would look upon a typical 43-year-old man. (I have no way of knowing if you're typical, but I think you get my point.)

I can't help but think that much of this may come down to what the homeowner says. Many here assume that the homeowner will come to this man's defense. For his sake, I hope so. However, people will surprise you. They may likely start wailing to the media that no possession of their's was worth these human lives, no matter how bad the character.

Given the information that I have, I don't think I could convict the guy if I were on the jury; however, there are people that would do it in a heartbeat. His discussion with the 911 operator doesn't help him.

Right now he needs a crafty lawyer and a praying mother.

[Photoman]

Diarrhea of the mouth is right! This is a fantastic example of clamping your lips when the gun comes out.

Who knows what will happen in the criminal phase of this case. Maybe the two burlgars came at him in his front yard?

The civil phase will be VERY interesting...

[Doug.38PR]

Doug.38PR wrote:
Quote:
No, deadly force in response to a theft is retricted to the nighttime. DF to stop a BURGLARY is not so restricted.



Exactly. So Doesn't that alone give the DA legal grounds to go after him?

txinvestigator wrote:
Uhh, I am pretty sure he was stopping a burglary, no?

Well....

§ 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is
justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or
tangible, movable property:
(1) if he would be justified in using force against the
other under Section 9.41; and
(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the
deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of
arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the
nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing
immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated
robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the
property; and <-- (not "or")
(3) he reasonably believes that:
(A) the land or property cannot be protected or
recovered by any other means; or
(B) the use of force other than deadly force to
protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or
another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.

§ 9.41. PROTECTION OF ONE'S OWN PROPERTY. (a) A person in
lawful possession of land or tangible, movable property is
justified in using force against another when and to the degree the
actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to
prevent or terminate the other's trespass on the land or unlawful
interference with the property.
(b) A person unlawfully dispossessed of land or tangible,
movable property by another is justified in using force against the
other when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force
is immediately necessary to reenter the land or recover the
property if the actor uses the force immediately or in fresh pursuit
after the dispossession and:
(1) the actor reasonably believes the other had no
claim of right when he dispossessed the actor;

[hkmp5s]

Well I just heard the 911 call and I think he is screwed. Old chuck the D A is going to go after him Big time. He has been waiting for a test case on our new state gun laws just to show us gun owners who is in charge. I hope this guy gets a good lawyer he's gonna need it.
From my point of view I would no bill this guy just to send a message to criminals, but I kinda feal like he was in the wrong.