Taco Cabana; NO WEAPONS ON OUR PROPERTY

[stevie_d_64]

Its Pupusa :)

Rise, Sir Smart-Aleck!

[Keith B]

Being an organics shop he does not get many LEO's in his shop, other than holidays when they shop for their wives.

Good thing he doesn't own a donut shop!!!!

[KBCraig]

Actually, it's questionable if 30.06 applies to non-TCLEOSE federal LEOs who are covered by LEOSA (FBI, U.S. Marshals, Bureau of Prisons, Border Patrol, DoD police, etc., etc., etc.), because 30.06 refers specifically to CHLs.
Kevin

Humm, I don't see how it is questionable;

It's questionable because Texas allows wide latitude for property owners to ban certain actions, including carrying of concealed handguns. While 30.06 only applies to CHLs, a valid 30.06 notice could be argued to be effective notice under 30.05 (even a ghostbusters sign is effective under 30.05, for non-CHLs).

Secondly, 30.05 specifically INCLUDES off duty in the non-applicibility. it matters not if Peace Officers or Special Investigators are on or off duty; 30.05 does not apply to them, and neither does 30.06.

I'm neither a Peace Officer nor a Special Investigator as defined in Texas law. Nor are the vast majority of federal LEOs in Texas. You realize there are about 3,000 working just for the Federal Bureau of Prisons in Texas, almost all qualified to carry under LEOSA? FBI/Marshals/DEA/ATF are a small minority.

[txinvestigator]

I believe you are wrong.
My wife's uncle is seventh day adventist. He owns a organics shop and has worked with his lawyer to ban any weapon on his property, including LEO.

I hate his policy, but as a private business owner, you do have certain rights.

I got confused. How did the LEO rreference come up? 30.06 does not apply to LEOs.

30.05 does not apply to Peace Officer OR Special Investigators

(g) This section does not apply if:
(1) the basis on which entry on the property or land or
in the building was forbidden is that entry with a handgun or other
weapon was forbidden; and
(2) the actor at the time of the offense was a peace
officer, including a commissioned peace officer of a recognized
state, or a special investigator under Article 2.122, Code of
Criminal Procedure, regardless of whether the peace officer or
special investigator was engaged in the actual discharge of an
official duty while carrying the weapon.

It is not possible for Taco Cabana to keep Peace Officer or FBI agents from carry firearms inside thier stores.

I would be interested to see ho they did that. Someone calls and claim that your wife's uncle assaulted him in the shop. How in the world do you think they are going to keep the cop out?

[txinvestigator]

It is not possible for Taco Cabana to keep Peace Officer or FBI agents from carry firearms inside thier stores.

How about: "Do you have a warrant or are you here on official business? If not, I'm asking you to leave."

Nothing to do with firearms....

BTW, I'm not supporting this. If I owned a business, I'd want LEOs as customers. Money is green and it's free security!! And I like cops....

Yes, they could in that situation.

[KBCraig]

Actually, it's questionable if 30.06 applies to non-TCLEOSE federal LEOs who are covered by LEOSA (FBI, U.S. Marshals, Bureau of Prisons, Border Patrol, DoD police, etc., etc., etc.), because 30.06 refers specifically to CHLs.
Kevin

Hey KBCraig, I wish you would have quoted part of the US Law that I posted when you made your objection. Partially quoting me kinda takes my statement out of context.

In the interest of readability, there's no need to keep quoting large sections. The law is right there, just a couple of posts away.

But let's get down to business anyway.
What part of the US Law is questionable??? It says..

I know what it says. I've been following LEOSA closely since it was just a bill.

Quoting it again doesn't explain what you think is not questionable, nor why. Do you think 30.06 does or doesn't apply to non-TCLEOSE, non-Special Investigator, non-CHL federal LEOs?

I said why applicability is questionable: 30.06 only applies to CHLs. As I responded to TXI, 30.06 only applies to CHL, but a 30.06 notice gives everyone notice that concealed handguns aren't welcome. There are thousands of non-Peace Officer, non-Special Investigator, but still LEOSA-qualified federal LEOs, carrying off-duty in Texas.

[txinvestigator]

Actually, it's questionable if 30.06 applies to non-TCLEOSE federal LEOs who are covered by LEOSA (FBI, U.S. Marshals, Bureau of Prisons, Border Patrol, DoD police, etc., etc., etc.), because 30.06 refers specifically to CHLs.
Kevin

Humm, I don't see how it is questionable;

It's questionable because Texas allows wide latitude for property owners to ban certain actions, including carrying of concealed handguns. While 30.06 only applies to CHLs, a valid 30.06 notice could be argued to be effective notice under 30.05 (even a ghostbusters sign is effective under 30.05, for non-CHLs).

I disagree. It does not matter if a Peace offier OR special investigator gets effective noticice under 30.05, as 30.05 specifically does not apply to Peace Officers or Special Investigators

Secondly, 30.05 specifically INCLUDES off duty in the non-applicibility. it matters not if Peace Officers or Special Investigators are on or off duty; 30.05 does not apply to them, and neither does 30.06.

I'm neither a Peace Officer nor a Special Investigator as defined in Texas law.

Then 30.05 WOULD apply to you. But it does not to Peace Officers or Special Investigators.

Nor are the vast majority of federal LEOs in Texas. You realize there are about 3,000 working just for the Federal Bureau of Prisons in Texas, almost all qualified to carry under LEOSA? FBI/Marshals/DEA/ATF are a small minority.

That does not change the facts. In the post I quoted, you lumped FBI, Border Patrol, Marshals. Prisons, DoD police, etc., all together. While all qualify under LEOSA, they do not ALL hold the same status under Texas law.

[lawrnk]

I believe you are wrong.
My wife's uncle is seventh day adventist. He owns a organics shop and has worked with his lawyer to ban any weapon on his property, including LEO.

I hate his policy, but as a private business owner, you do have certain rights.

I got confused. How did the LEO rreference come up? 30.06 does not apply to LEOs.

30.05 does not apply to Peace Officer OR Special Investigators

(g) This section does not apply if:
(1) the basis on which entry on the property or land or
in the building was forbidden is that entry with a handgun or other
weapon was forbidden; and
(2) the actor at the time of the offense was a peace
officer, including a commissioned peace officer of a recognized
state, or a special investigator under Article 2.122, Code of
Criminal Procedure, regardless of whether the peace officer or
special investigator was engaged in the actual discharge of an
official duty while carrying the weapon.

It is not possible for Taco Cabana to keep Peace Officer or FBI agents from carry firearms inside thier stores.

I would be interested to see ho they did that. Someone calls and claim that your wife's uncle assaulted him in the shop. How in the world do you think they are going to keep the cop out?

I am referring to persons casually entering the store. I am certain if an assault or anything with probable cause would override his gun ban easily.
I've never asked him about that, but I'm certain he is aware.

[lawrnk]

Being an organics shop he does not get many LEO's in his shop, other than holidays when they shop for their wives.

Good thing he doesn't own a donut shop!!!!

SDA's are health nuts. no meat, mostly organic home grown veggies. No TV, etc. They are sorta like Mennonites.


They are very anti-gun though

http://news.adventist.org/data/2001/01/ ... ex.html.en

[txinvestigator]

I believe you are wrong.
My wife's uncle is seventh day adventist. He owns a organics shop and has worked with his lawyer to ban any weapon on his property, including LEO.

I hate his policy, but as a private business owner, you do have certain rights.

I got confused. How did the LEO rreference come up? 30.06 does not apply to LEOs.

30.05 does not apply to Peace Officer OR Special Investigators

(g) This section does not apply if:
(1) the basis on which entry on the property or land or
in the building was forbidden is that entry with a handgun or other
weapon was forbidden; and
(2) the actor at the time of the offense was a peace
officer, including a commissioned peace officer of a recognized
state, or a special investigator under Article 2.122, Code of
Criminal Procedure, regardless of whether the peace officer or
special investigator was engaged in the actual discharge of an
official duty while carrying the weapon.

It is not possible for Taco Cabana to keep Peace Officer or FBI agents from carry firearms inside thier stores.

I would be interested to see ho they did that. Someone calls and claim that your wife's uncle assaulted him in the shop. How in the world do you think they are going to keep the cop out?

I am referring to persons casually entering the store. I am certain if an assault or anything with probable cause would override his gun ban easily.
I've never asked him about that, but I'm certain he is aware.

He CANNOT keep LEO's out based solely on them carrying a weapon; regardless of what you may be told. He can ask that no cops come in his store except for official purposes.

[Lucky45]

I know what it says. I've been following LEOSA closely since it was just a bill.
Quoting it again doesn't explain what you think is not questionable, nor why. Do you think 30.06 does or doesn't apply to non-TCLEOSE, non-Special Investigator, non-CHL federal LEOs?

I didn't just quote the law. I thought I quoted the exact parts and highlighted the areas to address what you said was questionable. And now you have others somewhat having similar views to what I said.

It is not possible for Taco Cabana to keep Peace Officer or FBI agents from carry firearms inside thier stores.

How about: "Do you have a warrant or are you here on official business? If not, I'm asking you to leave."

Yes, they could in that situation.

Isn't that similar to being "ON-DUTY" on official federal business and "OFF-DUTY" just browsing a store. And from HR218, I understood it to mean that Federal Agents can carry concealed throughout the USA, but they cannot construe that Law to mean that right supersedes any law of a STATE when it comes to a private citizen or entity from prohibiting the possession of a concealed weapon on their property.

I said why applicability is questionable: 30.06 only applies to CHLs. As I responded to TXI, 30.06 only applies to CHL, but a 30.06 notice gives everyone notice that concealed handguns aren't welcome. There are thousands of non-Peace Officer, non-Special Investigator, but still LEOSA-qualified federal LEOs, carrying off-duty in Texas.

My question would be, what laws apply to federal agent when they are off-duty. Is there some sort of immunity??? Because I know some people like to say that a LEO is never off-duty. But alot of departments, both federal and local, have distanced themselves before and said that XYZ agent/LEO was not acting in the capacity of the department when a major incident happens.

[lawrnk]

I believe you are wrong.
My wife's uncle is seventh day adventist. He owns a organics shop and has worked with his lawyer to ban any weapon on his property, including LEO.

I hate his policy, but as a private business owner, you do have certain rights.

I got confused. How did the LEO rreference come up? 30.06 does not apply to LEOs.

30.05 does not apply to Peace Officer OR Special Investigators

(g) This section does not apply if:
(1) the basis on which entry on the property or land or
in the building was forbidden is that entry with a handgun or other
weapon was forbidden; and
(2) the actor at the time of the offense was a peace
officer, including a commissioned peace officer of a recognized
state, or a special investigator under Article 2.122, Code of
Criminal Procedure, regardless of whether the peace officer or
special investigator was engaged in the actual discharge of an
official duty while carrying the weapon.

It is not possible for Taco Cabana to keep Peace Officer or FBI agents from carry firearms inside thier stores.

I would be interested to see ho they did that. Someone calls and claim that your wife's uncle assaulted him in the shop. How in the world do you think they are going to keep the cop out?

I am referring to persons casually entering the store. I am certain if an assault or anything with probable cause would override his gun ban easily.
I've never asked him about that, but I'm certain he is aware.

He CANNOT keep LEO's out based solely on them carrying a weapon; regardless of what you may be told. He can ask that no cops come in his store except for official purposes.

Cops do not enter his business with their firearms. He has yet to have one visit for official purposes, yet. He is in a small town with a handful of cops. Everybody knows. I'm pretty sure you just repeated what I already said above.

[txinvestigator]

I believe you are wrong.
My wife's uncle is seventh day adventist. He owns a organics shop and has worked with his lawyer to ban any weapon on his property, including LEO.

I hate his policy, but as a private business owner, you do have certain rights.

I got confused. How did the LEO rreference come up? 30.06 does not apply to LEOs.

30.05 does not apply to Peace Officer OR Special Investigators

(g) This section does not apply if:
(1) the basis on which entry on the property or land or
in the building was forbidden is that entry with a handgun or other
weapon was forbidden; and
(2) the actor at the time of the offense was a peace
officer, including a commissioned peace officer of a recognized
state, or a special investigator under Article 2.122, Code of
Criminal Procedure, regardless of whether the peace officer or
special investigator was engaged in the actual discharge of an
official duty while carrying the weapon.

It is not possible for Taco Cabana to keep Peace Officer or FBI agents from carry firearms inside thier stores.

I would be interested to see ho they did that. Someone calls and claim that your wife's uncle assaulted him in the shop. How in the world do you think they are going to keep the cop out?

I am referring to persons casually entering the store. I am certain if an assault or anything with probable cause would override his gun ban easily.
I've never asked him about that, but I'm certain he is aware.

He CANNOT keep LEO's out based solely on them carrying a weapon; regardless of what you may be told. He can ask that no cops come in his store except for official purposes.

Cops do not enter his business with their firearms. He has yet to have one visit for official purposes, yet. He is in a small town with a handful of cops. Everybody knows. I'm pretty sure you just repeated what I already said above.

Has a uniformed cop ever walked in with an empty holster? Of course not. Your wife's uncle's attorney cannot override state law.

He MIGHT have had meetings with the Police Chief, who agreed to ask his guys not to patronize the place while armed. However, unless the uncle in law excludes all cops, then no charge could be made if he allows unarmed cops in but tries to exclude armed cops.

[txinvestigator]

My question would be, what laws apply to federal agent when they are off-duty. Is there some sort of immunity??? Because I know some people like to say that a LEO is never off-duty. But alot of departments, both federal and local, have distanced themselves before and said that XYZ agent/LEO was not acting in the capacity of the department when a major incident happens.

This is getting convulted. I'll break it down;

Texas Peace Officers, whether on or off duty, are exempt from normal trespassing IF the basis for it is the carry of a firearm. TPC 30.05 30.06 does not apply, as it is only for those who carry under authority of a CHL, which Peace Officers don't.

Special Investigators are exempt from 30.05, whether on duty or not. Once again, Special investigators are not carrying under the CHL laws, so 30.06 is irrelevant.

There are many federal officers, as KBCraig pointed out, who are not listed as Special Investigators under Texas law. THEY would be liable under 30.05, but not 30.06.

See here for a list of Texas Peace Officers; http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/do ... tm#2.12.00

see here for a list of Special Investigators; http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/do ... m#2.122.00

[Lucky45]

[This is getting convulted. I'll break it down;

My question was specifically about federal agents. I know about the TX peace officers.

There are many federal officers, as KBCraig pointed out, who are not listed as Special Investigators under Texas law. THEY would be liable under 30.05, but not 30.06.

There you go, I got my answer like I thought. 'Preciate it. TXi.