Stay Warm and Safe the Next Few Days

[puma guy]

The areas Texas not covered by ERCOT were barely affected. Most outages were short: minute to a few hours. Very, very interesting.

El Paso was one o’ those areas, but it wasn’t as cold and it didn’t last as long as the cold in the middle of the state. There were public warnings and requests to conserve power from El Paso Electric Co. Also, I don’t think we’re as dependent on wind and solar.

ERCOT outages affected the entire area of coverage regardless of temperatures and conditions. The non ERCOT providers weren't relying on 42% wind generation that virtually disappeared ( down to 8%) putting the entire load on the remaining mostly natural gas and some coal generating plants which became overloaded. You can't loose 34% of your power generation all at once and survive. The crap about natural gas freezing is just that -crap. The freeze point of Methane (natural gas) is -295°F and the vapor point is -258°F. Frozen natural gas didn't happen. There could have been issues with the system controls, but that's not what is being stated as the problem. It's all spin to take the heat of green energy sources. AOC is too ignorant to realize her comment about Texas rejecting the Green New Deal is probably the stupidest utterance in her career. Texas leads the US in all Green Energy and we have 30% of all wind generation in the entire United States.

My understanding is that the amount of water vapor in the natural gas going through the pipelines was high enough to be a problem at very low temperatures, thus the clogs were dependent upon the freezing temperature of water, not the gas itself.

I haven't seen that information. Do you have a link to any info regarding that? The refinery I worked in imported billions of cubic feet of natural gas in weather ranging from 105° to 8-9° and never had problems. I worked in the utility department that monitored the entire fuel system of a 325M Bbl/Day refinery and we never have any occurrences such as the ones you describe. I'm trying to understand why water in methane would be vaporized. I don't know about power plants, but every refinery I've been in has knock out pots to catch any condensates in gas systems. Our system combined gas produced during the refining process with natural gas and there was a much greater possibility of having condensible constituents and no fuel control valves ever froze up/clogged up in sub freezing weather. But I am interested in learning if what occurred.

I'll look for the link and try to post it, though the source was not sufficiently technical to provide good details. My assumption is that the circumstances that you encoutered are exactly what happens in chemical plants and refineries, but that unscrupulous producers who knew that their product would go straight to a combined cycle plant that wouldn't know or care allowed them to take short cuts. I.e. "we got most of the water out, and it's going straight into a turbine regardless." If the walls of the pipeline are even in the 20sF that is probably fine, but if you get that pipe cold enough then the water vapor starts condensing and can lock valves and block pipes. The really odd parallel to that is the USS Thresher: The use of silver brazing vs welding caused a critical pipe failure near test depth, but the sub was unable to blow its tanks because the valves froze due to water vapor in the pressurized air tanks freezing on the control valves.

All I can find is pronouncements by people stating natural gas froze in the pipelines. The info I find from industry and providers seems to make it clear it's very unlikely natural gas would freeze in pipelines. Natural gas pipeline operate in much harsher environments than we encountered here the past week. There is one site with a caveat that water could be left in a line after construction or repairs and pressure testing, but rarely happens. Of course it would be nice to see a response from suppliers on the topic.

[dhoobler]

My understanding is that the amount of water vapor in the natural gas going through the pipelines was high enough to be a problem at very low temperatures, thus the clogs were dependent upon the freezing temperature of water, not the gas itself.

Pipeline natural gas is dried to a maximum water content of seven pounds per million standard cubic feet. That works out to about 0.014 mole percent. It has a dew point of -40 F (-40 C). It is unlikely that water froze in the natural gas pipeline and contributed to the grid failure.

[philip964]

My understanding is that the amount of water vapor in the natural gas going through the pipelines was high enough to be a problem at very low temperatures, thus the clogs were dependent upon the freezing temperature of water, not the gas itself.

Pipeline natural gas is dried to a maximum water content of seven pounds per million standard cubic feet. That works out to about 0.014 mole percent. It has a dew point of -40 F (-40 C). It is unlikely that water froze in the natural gas pipeline and contributed to the grid failure.

So I read somewhere froze at the wellhead.

[Liberty]

My understanding is that the amount of water vapor in the natural gas going through the pipelines was high enough to be a problem at very low temperatures, thus the clogs were dependent upon the freezing temperature of water, not the gas itself.

Pipeline natural gas is dried to a maximum water content of seven pounds per million standard cubic feet. That works out to about 0.014 mole percent. It has a dew point of -40 F (-40 C). It is unlikely that water froze in the natural gas pipeline and contributed to the grid failure.

So I read somewhere froze at the wellhead.

It also froze at the condensate units themselves. Although I haven't heard anything specifically, but pressures tend to decrease with temperature. Refineries produce natural gas, Those plants had problems.

Most catastrophes aren't the result of a single point of failure but are the result of multiple smaller incidents that combine together to create a much larger failure.

[puma guy]

My understanding is that the amount of water vapor in the natural gas going through the pipelines was high enough to be a problem at very low temperatures, thus the clogs were dependent upon the freezing temperature of water, not the gas itself.

Pipeline natural gas is dried to a maximum water content of seven pounds per million standard cubic feet. That works out to about 0.014 mole percent. It has a dew point of -40 F (-40 C). It is unlikely that water froze in the natural gas pipeline and contributed to the grid failure.

So I read somewhere froze at the wellhead.

It also froze at the condensate units themselves. Although I haven't heard anything specifically, but pressures tend to decrease with temperature. Refineries produce natural gas, Those plants had problems.

Most catastrophes aren't the result of a single point of failure but are the result of multiple smaller incidents that combine together to create a much larger failure.

The strangest thing to me is I've heard no one complain of losing natural gas supply to their home or business. I haven't found any substantiated report of the natural gas freezing phenomenon that is being reported. I can accept that control devices froze, but with no real evidence presented I remain skeptical gas froze in the lines. I guess we'll have to wait for the investigation. Refineries do produce off gas during the distillation and cracking processes but rarely is methane separated. Most often the off gas is mixed with the natural gas supply to fire the furnaces. Some of the gas is too low pressure to join the fuel gas system , so it's run through compressors and equipment to knock out and remove any liquid constituents.

[philip964]

https://www.khou.com/article/news/local ... fc212b502b

Near as I can tell, natural gas companies signed up to have their power turned off in times of emergency for money. Then when their power was turned off, they were unable to provide natural gas to power generating companies who then had to shut down.

[Paladin]

https://www.khou.com/article/news/local ... fc212b502b

Near as I can tell, natural gas companies signed up to have their power turned off in times of emergency for money. Then when their power was turned off, they were unable to provide natural gas to power generating companies who then had to shut down.

Follow the money:

Texas power grid operator overcharged companies $16B during winter freeze

Funny that we don't know who the companies were that got paid to shut down the 67 sites?

So the only question was left is whether this was criminal negligence or racketeering?

Because if the companies that had who signed up to have their power turned off also made billions off the shutdown that sounds like racketeering.

[Rafe]

BREAKING NEWS!

The result of a federal study funded by your tax dollars was just released giving us remarkable new information about the root causes of the deadly winter storm that plunged temperatures in Texas to near zero leaving millions without power for an extended period and resulting in the deaths of hundreds of Texans. Today, the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission presented the results of its research. The startling finding was that...

The biggest cause of our power outages during the deep freeze was cold temperatures, to which 44% of all problems were attributed. Coming in second place among causative factors and accounting for a further 31% of the outages was natural gas shortage problems.

I mean...mind blown, am I right! Who'd ever have thought?!

https://abc13.com/experts-determine-wha ... /11041471/

https://www.ferc.gov/media/february-202 ... tions-full

[03Lightningrocks]

Thank goodness for the study. I have wondered what caused the problems.

[flechero]

There was an equally groundbreaking study after hurricane katrina that found one the biggest problems in new orleans after the storm was excess water.

[longtooth]

They sure found the right answer about Angelina County. We were part of the 44% who experienced unusually cold temperatures here. Around the 0 mark for several days wrecked our power here too. We were definitely in the 31% that experienced natural gas shortage. We had none. Actually had candles and clay flower pots and made the make shift heaters out of them. They really do work Kept our 2 rooms kitchen and living area very tolerable. Nobody will freeze dry and above 40 degrees. I was pleasantly surprised.
I am so thankful the gubermt finally spent my tax $$s on something so informative. Being the helpless peasant I am, I would have never figured it out by my self

[XDgal]

What they didn't say, was the main reason there was a gas shortage was because they cut the power to the wells! Kind of like trying to charge your battery in your car with the engine and diverting the power to the battery by cutting off the fuel pump.

[Tex1961]

Well... If anyone here who has been following this thread is unprepared this year, it's on you... I know some may be on limited or fixed income (or health reasons) so you're excused. I was pretty much already set last year, but I am more than ready this year. We have at least 4 months of food stored including basics such as toilet paper, medicines, and other basic toiletries, etc. We have 5 full propane tanks and about a dozen 1lb tanks for our camping grill. I have about 1 full cord of dried and stacked firewood as well. Not to mention a full case of sterno cans. We have enough candles to light a small village.
And if all that fails, I have a motorhome that has enough gas and propane to last at least 3 full weeks on it's on that I can bring to the house.. The onboard 4k generator can power at least some lights, microwave etc, in my home if I stay inside of it, if not then of course we would just stay in the motorhome itself. I have been doing everything within my limited ability over the past few years to rely on nobody else as much as possible...

[K.Mooneyham]

My understanding is that the amount of water vapor in the natural gas going through the pipelines was high enough to be a problem at very low temperatures, thus the clogs were dependent upon the freezing temperature of water, not the gas itself.

Pipeline natural gas is dried to a maximum water content of seven pounds per million standard cubic feet. That works out to about 0.014 mole percent. It has a dew point of -40 F (-40 C). It is unlikely that water froze in the natural gas pipeline and contributed to the grid failure.

So I read somewhere froze at the wellhead.

It also froze at the condensate units themselves. Although I haven't heard anything specifically, but pressures tend to decrease with temperature. Refineries produce natural gas, Those plants had problems.

Most catastrophes aren't the result of a single point of failure but are the result of multiple smaller incidents that combine together to create a much larger failure.

The strangest thing to me is I've heard no one complain of losing natural gas supply to their home or business. I haven't found any substantiated report of the natural gas freezing phenomenon that is being reported. I can accept that control devices froze, but with no real evidence presented I remain skeptical gas froze in the lines. I guess we'll have to wait for the investigation. Refineries do produce off gas during the distillation and cracking processes but rarely is methane separated. Most often the off gas is mixed with the natural gas supply to fire the furnaces. Some of the gas is too low pressure to join the fuel gas system , so it's run through compressors and equipment to knock out and remove any liquid constituents.

The freezing point of natural gas is minus 296.7° degrees F, so I'd have to agree with you that the gas could NOT have frozen in the lines. If there was water vapor mixed in, and that collected in the valves, that would have done it. I worked liquid oxygen systems on a few aircraft while in the USAF. The system had to be kept free of all moisture. If the system had problems, oftentimes the only solution was to drain the system, then purge it with hot air to blow all the water vapor out, then follow on with dry gaseous oxygen, and finally reservice with liquid oxygen again. Usually did the trick, unless a seal inside of a valve got damaged, or some other mechanical issue with the system.

[powerboatr]

we are on a coop and i found out this week from the main office that ERCOT has zero control over us and many coops in texas. I AM happy

we get our power from the Henderson plant which is natural gas fired. we had zero loss of pwr during the uri storm from hades.
however our coop spent 37 million in pwr costs because they had contracted X amount of megawatts per month. during uir they used all the monthly contracted allotment and had to pay the higher rates for using excess pwr. we get the privilege of paying back this higher cost over 7 years in the way of a power cost recovery fee (PCRF) of .04 per kwh. we normally have a PCRF ranging in the .022 to .038 .
our kwh charge is s till less than .11 cents per kwh. but the added pcrf is based on your kwh usage. my kwh usage has dropped 400 kwh from last month, but my bill is 70 dollars higher than previous due to the increase of pcrf.

so it it what it is .

then she tells me the coop is expecting a colder winter than last year, but not as long duration events