prosecution over impromper 30.06 postings

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txinvestigator
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#61

Post by txinvestigator »

rb4browns wrote:
HadEmAll wrote:I took my mother to a medical procedure the other day. The facility had 2 entrances to the same lobby, doors facing each other across a sidewalk. Using one would have your back directly to the other. The doors themselves were about 20 feet apart.

One set of doors had the proper configuration of the 30.06 sign, the other did not. It was definitely possible to enter the non-signed door without even looking at the other, which I did after wiping the sight of the other from my mind. ;-)
How many fellow CHLers wink at knowlingly disregarding legal 30.06 signs yet rail against illegal immigrants simply because they, "broke the law" to get to America..
And then brag about it. The violation is a class A misdemeanor, enough to get you a year in jail and lose your CHL for 7 years.

I guess we (CHLers) are not a group that obeys the law at a higher rate than the general population; despite how loudly some of us want to yell it.
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Remember those who died, remember those who killed them.

HadEmAll
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#62

Post by HadEmAll »

I've carried through doors that had miniature 30.06 signs, and through doors that had "paraphrased" 30.06 signs. I've carried through doors that had only the English version. Here I carried through a door that didn't have a 30.06 sign at all.

For me, any situation like that is an opportunity.

And rb4browns, to me, people who manufacture facts like "hospital" (which it wasn't and I didn't say, are a real problem, along with illegal immigrants.
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#63

Post by boomerang »

rb4browns wrote:How many fellow CHLers wink at knowlingly disregarding legal 30.06 signs yet rail against illegal immigrants simply because they, "broke the law" to get to America.
I don't know. How many?
Is that more or less than the number of companies with anti-gun signs that hire illegals?
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Photoman
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#64

Post by Photoman »

txinvestigator wrote: Self-defense does not include the carry of any weapon you choose.

That is your opinion. I don't agree with it.

srothstein
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#65

Post by srothstein »

GrillKing wrote:I can't believe a LEO can stay on private property if asked to leave unless they were there for official police business. It's just that it is not criminal for them to pass the sign. It seems that w/o this legislation, passing a 'no guns' sign would be tresspassing for going to lunch, stopping by the dry cleaners or WalMart on the way home, etc. Almost no one has a problem with LEOs and I have to believe most 'no guns' signs are not intended for LEOs.

I'm missing how this is bad....
Well, GrillKing, as Charles pointed out, the only thing cops are exempt from on criminal trespass laws is the discrimination of the trespass being because of the weapon. If you come up and tell a police officer to leave your property because you don't like blue uniforms, he has to leave or take the chance on being arrested. It is well documented in case law that criminal trespass does apply to officers, even if they are on duty and answering a call. The pre-eminent case on it was a drug case where the Court of Criminal Appeals overturned a police arrest for a meth lab because the police entered a large acreage by crossing a fence line. Their being on the property was how they got the probable cause for the warrant. The court specifically noted that there is no exception in the Penal Code sections on criminal trespass for police officers. There is for firefighters and EMT's, so if the legislature wanted it to not apply to officers, it would be written that way.

It is a bad law to create special classes of people that have special privileges. This is especially true when it is giving government employees a privilege no other citizen has and overriding a private property owner's rights. The fact that no one expects signs posted for citizens to apply to police officers is just a sign that we are on the way to having a more stratified class society. That goes against my grain as an American, though, intellectually, I realize we have always had a society of castes, even if we did not take it as far as India did.


Charles,

The law I was referring to requiring the officer to take action is Article 2.13 of the Code of Criminal Procedure. It makes no distinction for duty status on the duties required of officers. I was taught that the interpretation of this as making the cop on duty 24 hours was a workmen's comp case from San Antonio in the early to mid 80's. The officer was injured stopping a crime while off-duty and the city tried to say it was not workmen's comp since he was not being paid for the work at the time. The city lost, though there was a contributing factor of the city rules and regs having a similar clause.

But that does not excuse the law. I agree with you that the law should not allow a police officer to do anything a citizen cannot do without a court order (or the same rules with exigent circumstances).
Steve Rothstein

KBCraig
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#66

Post by KBCraig »

:iagree:

Thanks, Steve!

:cheers2:

Renegade

#67

Post by Renegade »

srothstein wrote: It is a bad law to create special classes of people that have special privileges. This is especially true when it is giving government employees a privilege no other citizen has and overriding a private property owner's rights. The fact that no one expects signs posted for citizens to apply to police officers is just a sign that we are on the way to having a more stratified class society. That goes against my grain as an American, though, intellectually, I realize we have always had a society of castes, even if we did not take it as far as India did.
srothstein should have been nominated for US Attorney General.

GrillKing
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#68

Post by GrillKing »

srothstein wrote:
GrillKing wrote:I can't believe a LEO can stay on private property if asked to leave unless they were there for official police business. It's just that it is not criminal for them to pass the sign. It seems that w/o this legislation, passing a 'no guns' sign would be tresspassing for going to lunch, stopping by the dry cleaners or WalMart on the way home, etc. Almost no one has a problem with LEOs and I have to believe most 'no guns' signs are not intended for LEOs.

I'm missing how this is bad....
Well, GrillKing, as Charles pointed out, the only thing cops are exempt from on criminal trespass laws is the discrimination of the trespass being because of the weapon. If you come up and tell a police officer to leave your property because you don't like blue uniforms, he has to leave or take the chance on being arrested. It is well documented in case law that criminal trespass does apply to officers, even if they are on duty and answering a call. The pre-eminent case on it was a drug case where the Court of Criminal Appeals overturned a police arrest for a meth lab because the police entered a large acreage by crossing a fence line. Their being on the property was how they got the probable cause for the warrant. The court specifically noted that there is no exception in the Penal Code sections on criminal trespass for police officers. There is for firefighters and EMT's, so if the legislature wanted it to not apply to officers, it would be written that way.

It is a bad law to create special classes of people that have special privileges. This is especially true when it is giving government employees a privilege no other citizen has and overriding a private property owner's rights. The fact that no one expects signs posted for citizens to apply to police officers is just a sign that we are on the way to having a more stratified class society. That goes against my grain as an American, though, intellectually, I realize we have always had a society of castes, even if we did not take it as far as India did.


Charles,

The law I was referring to requiring the officer to take action is Article 2.13 of the Code of Criminal Procedure. It makes no distinction for duty status on the duties required of officers. I was taught that the interpretation of this as making the cop on duty 24 hours was a workmen's comp case from San Antonio in the early to mid 80's. The officer was injured stopping a crime while off-duty and the city tried to say it was not workmen's comp since he was not being paid for the work at the time. The city lost, though there was a contributing factor of the city rules and regs having a similar clause.

But that does not excuse the law. I agree with you that the law should not allow a police officer to do anything a citizen cannot do without a court order (or the same rules with exigent circumstances).

Thanks, now I need to think. I agree, I think, with what you said,. Ido think a police officer should not be restricted from normal activities by a generic no guns sign. If it is more specific, like a 30.06, then that would suffice in my view in protecting property rights. I just don't think that it should be criminal trespass when the owner likely didn't intend it (no guns) to apply to LEOs. But as I said, I need to read and digest what you said and I wake up slow on Saturdays.... Are we on the same page????

Thanks.

Gary
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age_ranger
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#69

Post by age_ranger »

I think that if a 30.06 sign is posted and it's legible and in a conspicious area, I'm gonna honor it. Now, if it's illegible or behind the counter or NOT a 30.06 reference I'll happily walk by. If they take the time to post the 30.06 reference I'm probably going to understand their views on my carry rights and go elsewhere with my business.
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#70

Post by Right2Carry »

I honor all legit attempts at 30.06, for me its not worth being a test case over a sign that is missing the spanish version, letters not quite 1", not blocked, don't appear to be contrasting, missing or misspelled words, ect...

I will not spend my money where I am not wanted. I have a right to carry but the law has given property owners the right to post a 30.06 sign to exercise their rights not to have CHLers on their property.

I am not going to squabble over technicalities nor am I going to look for a way to carry where I am not wanted. It's that simple for me.
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bauerdj
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Old signs

#71

Post by bauerdj »

I enter on an almost daily basis a nursing home which has the following sign "Carry of a concealed hangun on these premisis is prohibited under state law" Sign also has the same verbage in spanish. I have been ignoring it under the assumption that it was psted to comply with previous law and has been left up out of ignorance of the changes in the law or neglect.

Dave B.

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Whatever

#72

Post by rb4browns »

HadEmAll wrote:I've carried through doors that had miniature 30.06 signs, and through doors that had "paraphrased" 30.06 signs. I've carried through doors that had only the English version. Here I carried through a door that didn't have a 30.06 sign at all.

For me, any situation like that is an opportunity.

And rb4browns, to me, people who manufacture facts like "hospital" (which it wasn't and I didn't say, are a real problem, along with illegal immigrants.
You are still irresponsible to say the least to come here bragging how you saw a legal 30.06 sign and blew it off.

HadEmAll wrote: One set of doors had the proper configuration of the 30.06 sign, the other did not. It was definitely possible to enter the non-signed door without even looking at the other, which I did after wiping the sight of the other from my mind. ;-)


Illegal immigration is a problem because people cross our border and stay in violation of the law. Not because they are immigrants. CHL holders who knowingly (and proudly trumpet the fact on the internet that they) violate the law are also a problem.

I'm not manafacturing anything, I'm reflecting your words back to you. As another poster pointed out, you are bragging about knowingly committing a Class A misdemeanor. Your irresponsible behavior is a problem for all of us, that you would brag about it is even worse.
Last edited by rb4browns on Sat Nov 10, 2007 7:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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rb4browns
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#73

Post by rb4browns »

boomerang wrote:
rb4browns wrote:How many fellow CHLers wink at knowlingly disregarding legal 30.06 signs yet rail against illegal immigrants simply because they, "broke the law" to get to America.
I don't know. How many?
Is that more or less than the number of companies with anti-gun signs that hire illegals?
If it's 1 CHL holder railing against other people who break the law but proudly tell the world how they themselves commit class A felonies it's a problem.

Any company hiring illegals is a problem and should be fined/punished, regardless of 30.06 or not. That's not the point I am making.
I wasn't born in Texas but I got here as soon as I could!

78641
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Re: Old signs

#74

Post by 78641 »

bauerdj wrote:I enter on an almost daily basis a nursing home which has the following sign "Carry of a concealed hangun on these premisis is prohibited under state law" Sign also has the same verbage in spanish. I have been ignoring it under the assumption that it was psted to comply with previous law and has been left up out of ignorance of the changes in the law or neglect.

Dave B.
I could be wrong but I thought a nursing home was one of the places you [/i]cannot legally carry without the express permission of the owner/administrator. If I remember correctly, they don't need to post anything.

txinvestigator
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Re: Old signs

#75

Post by txinvestigator »

78641 wrote:
bauerdj wrote:I enter on an almost daily basis a nursing home which has the following sign "Carry of a concealed hangun on these premisis is prohibited under state law" Sign also has the same verbage in spanish. I have been ignoring it under the assumption that it was psted to comply with previous law and has been left up out of ignorance of the changes in the law or neglect.

Dave B.
I could be wrong but I thought a nursing home was one of the places you [/i]cannot legally carry without the express permission of the owner/administrator. If I remember correctly, they don't need to post anything.
Texas Penal Code
§ 46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE
HOLDER.
(b) A license holder commits an offense if the license
holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun
under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code,
regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, on or about the
license holder's person:

(4) on the premises of a hospital licensed under
Chapter 241, Health and Safety Code, or on the premises of a nursing
home licensed under Chapter 242, Health and Safety Code
, unless the
license holder has written authorization of the hospital or nursing
home administration, as appropriate;


(i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply
if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06.
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Remember those who died, remember those who killed them.
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