AMMO. Buying, selling or nothing

[Grayling813]

There's ammo to be bought...if you're willing to pay the price for it. Twice so far this week, as well as a couple of times last week, I've received "in stock alerts" for 9mm range ammo, at .60/round.

[Tex1961]

There's ammo to be bought...if you're willing to pay the price for it. Twice so far this week, as well as a couple of times last week, I've received "in stock alerts" for 9mm range ammo, at .60/round.

Cheaper to buy it on the secondary market.... Armslist or Texas Gun Trader is running .48 to .55 cents per round.. No taxes and no shipping... I don't mind meeting people to buy and sell ammo....

[Rafe]

Rafe,

I am so sorry man. I apologize for leading you down the dark path. They seemed surprised when I called them. The comment was "we have been having problems with the website since Monday when we came in." Well yeah... I told her that they needed to get their vendor on ASAP and they needed to send out a note to people that had purchased.

No way this is on you. No apologies. I used to shop at Freedom a lot in the past; was even at the grand opening of their (fairly short-lived) store off 290 in northwest Houston. They'd just slipped off my to-check list after their business contracted and they closed that Houston store. At least I still get some decent .308 hunting rounds out of it.

[Rafe]

Just an update: Freedom Munitions has taken their shopping cart checkout function offline. Online website malware checkers can't evaluate the site now because the infected area is inaccessible. However, there is no notice or warning or explanation at all on the website, and after four days since the breach was confirmed, they've made no email communication efforts to affected shoppers.

[Rafe]

Update: finally got a notification from Freedom Munitions, such as it is. See attached. It arrived a couple of hours ago even though it's dated yesterday. What's disappointing is that Freedom takes no responsibility, despite the fact that we followed the October breach real-time, here on this forum, and we know that the malware injection occurred on Freedom's site, not at Kash CA, Inc. It very well might have been a gateway vulnerability in one or more of the files installed in support of the payment implementation, but better website security by Freedom would probably have prevented the issue entirely.

Remember, this was a Trojan that has been known since 2015 and that infected, specifically, websites running the Magneto content management system, which Freedom does. I'll bet 20 bucks that this had been patchable for years on Freedom's website, and that it was ambivalence and ineptitude, not fancy hacking, that ultimately resulted in this breach.

And what is Freedom doing for those of us who know we were directly affected? Saying, "We are taking this seriously." Oh, and keep an eye on your credit report. Nothing else. No actual apology, not a, "Hey, free shipping on your next order." Not even a letter above the name of one of Freedom Munitions officers taking responsibility.

I hadn't ordered from them in years, and then when I did I had to have my credit card cancelled and replaced...a process which is always a nightmare when you have services auto-billed to a card. And then seven weeks later a letter saying, "Your personal information was compromised and we take it seriously."

Well, not as seriously as I do. They will never see another penny from me and, should anyone ever ask me about Freedom Munitions in the future, I'll gladly relate my 2020 experience by way of explanation why I will forever recommend avoiding Freedom Munitions.

Oh, P.S. In the letter they state the period of vulnerability was October 16 to November 26. Note that forum member Syntyr notified them by telephone of the breach on October 20, and I did the same on October 21 after confirming that my credit card had been compromised. They had even taken their online ordering system offline as of that time. Makes one wonder where the subsequent five weeks of vulnerability came from, doesn't it?

[strogg]

And what is Freedom doing for those of us who know we were directly affected? Saying, "We are taking this seriously." Oh, and keep an eye on your credit report. Nothing else. No actual apology, not a, "Hey, free shipping on your next order." Not even a letter above the name of one of Freedom Munitions officers taking responsibility.

I'd never order from them either, for those reasons. You want my business, you at least say "Sorry" when you mess up - especially when you put your customers at risk.

I wouldn't put it against them too much. It's literally not their fault. They shouldn't be the ones responsible for compensating for other people's mistakes. Granted, I would like to see good faith gestures too, but for this type of event, I'll give them a pass. The vendor that does payment processing, not so much of a pass.

Credit card theft through online checkout systems are pretty rampant. 99% of the time a credit card is stolen, it is through those same e-commerce-systems-in-a-box that Freedom uses. That's why I try my best to only shop from stores big enough to do their web coding in-house or forward payment processing directly to a credit card gateway I can trust (Stripe, Authorize, etc). Despite that, I usually end up replace my primary credit card twice a year easily after seeing fraudulent charges (I'm not always successful at trying). At least my credit card company is nice about it.

[C-dub]

Anyone have any .243 Winchester they don't need or want any more? I've been checking around, but ya'll know how that's been. I took my daughter and "son-in-law" out to my club last week. He wanted to shoot his rifle, but doesn't have any ammo for it and I couldn't find any for him either.

If there's anyone with some they're willing to part with in the DFW area I'd like to get him a little for Christmas.

[pushpullpete]

Anyone have any .243 Winchester they don't need or want any more? I've been checking around, but ya'll know how that's been. I took my daughter and "son-in-law" out to my club last week. He wanted to shoot his rifle, but doesn't have any ammo for it and I couldn't find any for him either.

If there's anyone with some they're willing to part with in the DFW area I'd like to get him a little for Christmas.

Check SGA ammo. SKU SBST243. 55grn fragmenting polymer tip. They're showing 109 in stock @ 6:49 pm Texas time tonight.
edited to add; also ammoseek.com

[flechero]

Anyone in dire need should make arrangements to be at Academy on a truck day- call the gun counter to get the schedule. They line up outside an hour or so before open time but are pretty reliable in what they get.

Hunting rifle calibers are not as consistent but handgun and 223/556 are like clockwork. You just have to be wiling to stand in line for 45 min to an hour to get a good selection.

I'd call the 2-3 closest stores and ask about 243... to see if thye are getting it regular or even have a little left.

[C-dub]

Anyone in dire need should make arrangements to be at Academy on a truck day- call the gun counter to get the schedule. They line up outside an hour or so before open time but are pretty reliable in what they get.

Hunting rifle calibers are not as consistent but handgun and 223/556 are like clockwork. You just have to be wiling to stand in line for 45 min to an hour to get a good selection.

I'd call the 2-3 closest stores and ask about 243... to see if thye are getting it regular or even have a little left.

I haven't been calling, but there are two that I pass semi regularly. I check them at least once a week with no luck so far.

[C-dub]

Anyone have any .243 Winchester they don't need or want any more? I've been checking around, but ya'll know how that's been. I took my daughter and "son-in-law" out to my club last week. He wanted to shoot his rifle, but doesn't have any ammo for it and I couldn't find any for him either.

If there's anyone with some they're willing to part with in the DFW area I'd like to get him a little for Christmas.

Check SGA ammo. SKU SBST243. 55grn fragmenting polymer tip. They're showing 109 in stock @ 6:49 pm Texas time tonight.
edited to add; also ammoseek.com

SGAmmo is one of my regulars to check for my ammo needs, but I haven't resorted to that for him yet. I'll give them a look. Thanks

EDIT: WOW, $2.25/round. I don't spend that much on my own ammo. He's a great kid, but not that great. I'll keep looking.

[Rafe]

And what is Freedom doing for those of us who know we were directly affected? Saying, "We are taking this seriously." Oh, and keep an eye on your credit report. Nothing else. No actual apology, not a, "Hey, free shipping on your next order." Not even a letter above the name of one of Freedom Munitions officers taking responsibility.

I'd never order from them either, for those reasons. You want my business, you at least say "Sorry" when you mess up - especially when you put your customers at risk.

I wouldn't put it against them too much. It's literally not their fault. They shouldn't be the ones responsible for compensating for other people's mistakes. Granted, I would like to see good faith gestures too, but for this type of event, I'll give them a pass. The vendor that does payment processing, not so much of a pass.

Respectfully, I'd point you back uptopic. The Trojan files installed were installed on Freedom's website, not on a payment processor's.

The Trojan, that had been known for at least five years, sits on the webhost, not at the payment processor, and the vulnerability that allowed the upload is unique to the Magneto content management system (CMS; one of many popular ones including WordPress and Joomla--website rendering systems, not payment processing mechanisms; none of them have native payment processing features). These JavaScript files intercept the entered credit card information before data is transmitted to a payment processor...but there really wasn't one in this case. Keep reading.

The credit card information was captured on Freedom's website and then automatically transmitted to the hacker's designated destination as set in the JavaScript of the Trojan. The result to the customer (i.e., me) was that simply nothing seemed to happen when the "okay" button was clicked to complete the purchase. No "please wait" or error or completion messages. As proof that the Trojan was on Freedom's website, not elsewhere, I've attached pages 5 and 6 of a scan I did of the Freedom site on October 20 using an online service called SiteGuarding.

All that aside, though, you have to dig a little deeper to find out that the payment processor as indicated on that breach notification letter, Kash CA, is not an independent entity at all, despite the clear attempt to imply that in the Freedom letter. All one happy family.

Here's a link to the free portion of Kash CA, Inc.'s Dun & Bradstreet listing. You'll note three things: 1) The annual reported revenues are tiny, only $86K per that D&B listing. 2) Kash CA is located in Lewiston, Idaho; its phone number of record is (208) 746-0694. 3) The only principal's name associated with the company is David Howell.

Now check the "About Us" page for Kash CA, Inc.: https://dealers.howellmunitionsandtech.com/aboutus.asp. "Kash CA, Inc. is an all-American, vertically integrated company specializing in the development of ammunition, components, loading machinery and OEM production." Their business location of record is 815 D. Street, Lewiston, Idaho.

Hop over to the Freedom Munition website's "Contact Us" page: https://www.freedommunitions.com/contacts. Location? 815 D. Street, Lewiston, Idaho; (208) 746-3668. The Freedom "About Us" page (https://www.freedommunitions.com/about-us) offers info about their 2018 bankruptcy:

NOTE: On June 8, 2018, X-Treme Bullets, Inc., Ammo Load Worldwide, Inc., Clearwater Bullet, Inc., Freedom Munitions, LLC, Howell Machine, Inc., Howell Munitions & Technology, Inc., Lewis-Clark Ammunition Components, LLC and Components Exchange, LLC (collectively, “HMT”) filed bankruptcy in the United States Bankruptcy Court in Reno Nevada (Case No. 18-50609) (the “Bankruptcy”). On October 22, 2019, Kash CA, Inc. (“Kash CA”) purchased the assets, including the trade names, website and Internet domain names, of HMT out of the Bankruptcy, without any liability relating to any claims concerning any HMT products previously sold by HMT. Kash CA does not own or operate any of the HMT entities. Kash CA operates this website through use of the Internet domain name and associated “Freedom Munitions” trade name solely for branding purposes. Any claims concerning ammunition or other products purchased prior to October 22, 2019 from any of the HMT entities are not the responsibility of Kash CA or covered by Kash CA under the posted warranty and/or returns policies, but are subject to the bankruptcy filed in the United States Bankruptcy Court in Reno Nevada (Case No. 18-50609)

[Soccerdad1995]

SGAmmo is one of my regulars to check for my ammo needs, but I haven't resorted to that for him yet. I'll give them a look. Thanks

EDIT: WOW, $2.25/round. I don't spend that much on my own ammo. He's a great kid, but not that great. I'll keep looking.

Yep, I'm experiencing that same thing myself. I love encouraging my kids to go to the range with me, but I had to limit my son to only .22lr rifles and handguns last trip. Fortunately, I just got a Glock 44 that I had been wanting to try out. We had fun, but I still hated telling him no on the 9mm and other guns he had wanted to shoot.

[Beiruty]

Are you buying reloaded Ammo?