National Collegiate Empty Holster Protest - October 22-26

[Penn]

Here's a FoxNews article:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,304806,00.html

Here's a funny quote:

"You don't like the fact that you can't have a gun on your college campus? Drop out of school," said Peter Hamm, a spokesman for the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence.

When someone pulls out a gun and starts firing in a crowded environment, it's more likely that additional victims will be harmed, Hamm said.

"Let's be grateful that those holsters are empty," he said.

[DaveT]

I would like to, but I am still making up my mind about doing this.

Debating on the school forums is one thing, but risking your college career over confusion and possible charges of terroristic threats being pressed against you by an insane liberal school administrator (worst case scenario) is another.

Yeah, most likely not going to happen, especially at shsu, but.. still....

How is an empty holster a terroristic threat? Would someone with pepper spray on their keychain actually be MORE dangerous than someone with a molded hunk of leather strapped to their hip?

I don't think Russell is saying that these types are reasonable. I can't help but wonder if some people aren't creating "witch hunts" out of this terrorism-watch business. There are certainly people in this country that would interpret an empty holster as a threat.

Exactly my thoughts.

An empty holster implies that the person wearing the empty holster has a gun. It might not be on the person, but wearing the empty holster as a means of protest goes against the very basic premise of concealed carry.

Assuming someone will invite the media to the various protests, I sure wouldn't want my face all over the evening news identifying me as a person who normally carries a concealed weapon.

[KBCraig]

I don't think Russell is saying that these types are reasonable. I can't help but wonder if some people aren't creating "witch hunts" out of this terrorism-watch business. There are certainly people in this country that would interpret an empty holster as a threat.

Exactly my thoughts.

An empty holster implies that the person wearing the empty holster has a gun. It might not be on the person, but wearing the empty holster as a means of protest goes against the very basic premise of concealed carry.

That's why this was done with broad advance publicity, and after organizers made personal contact with the universities in question.

The very basic premise of concealed carry is that you have be able to do so. Concealed carry is illegal on most campuses, thus the protest.

[HEMIzygote]

Here's a FoxNews article:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,304806,00.html

Here's a funny quote:

"You don't like the fact that you can't have a gun on your college campus? Drop out of school," said Peter Hamm, a spokesman for the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence.

When someone pulls out a gun and starts firing in a crowded environment, it's more likely that additional victims will be harmed, Hamm said.

"Let's be grateful that those holsters are empty," he said.

What a typical response of someone who really realizes the true purpose of the 'movement' yet still tries to degrade it with such an idiotic reply.

He goes on to say 'someone' instead of referring to a college student. Then he states 'crowded environment' instead of implying on a college campus. While the entire time he is just stating the obvious for any situation. Having a room full of people in a building on fire - the number of injuries and/or deaths will increase. Having a school bus full of children tip over - same outcome.

Looking past the pointless reply by Mr. Hamm - I seriously hope another Virginia Tech attack doesn't occur so he doesn't have to eat his ending statement:

"Let's be grateful that those holsters are empty"

What he should be stating other than the obvious is suggesting another real-time solution to allow the student immediate means to defend himself.

I asked my question without mentioning the word gun. Does anyone think he can answer without mentioning or referring to a gun also? There are several ways to inflict harm - but not many to allow for immediate personal protection.

The whole purpose isn't to allow guns so that we may stop a shooting. The purpose to is allow personal protection to stop anything whether its a carjacking, mugging, rape, robbery, kidnapping, and so on. The gun is there, as a tool, for me to protect myself from anything that will inflict harm to me. PERIOD.

He comes off like there are campuses full of cowboys who want to be the hero to take down the next school shooter. If one day, that situation again rises - I would have no problem with my students being armed. If I have to trust to them today when guns are banned then why can't I trust them tomorrow when guns are allowed - law allowing. What really changed? I don't know if anyone of the 400 sitting before me, sometimes with my back to them, are carrying a loaded weapon. Are they planning an attack or are they prepared for the worse?

The gun is for my personal protection. It is the tool and my right to bear. Its needs no explanation or no justification.

The Declaration of Independence states that I am 'endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Property (Happiness). The Constitution allows me 'the right of the people to keep and bear arms.' Do the intentions of those two documents not overlap in accomplishing the same goal of protecting the people?

So I am 'endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Property (Happiness).', but I can't use those rights and protect myself 24/7 regardless of the type of property I am on?

Doesn't that seem to be allowing me an 'INALIENABLE RIGHT' but with a limitation to follow which contradicts the UNALIENABLE? Where is the logic?

BOTTOM LINE: We have rights, actually unalienable rights, to life (me, myself, I), liberty (which is defined as "freedom from control, interference, obligation, restriction, hampering conditions"), and the pursuit of property/happiness (kind of need to be alive and well for that to continue).

Those rights were given to the people and not to be prohibited. Who gets to chose what type of tool, whether it be a gun, saber, battle axe, or taser, that I want to use to protect myself and my rights?

[HEMIzygote]

Received a link to this article in an e-mail sent out by Texas Tech University newspaper, The Daily Toreador:

http://media.www.dailytoreador.com/medi ... ailedition

The replies at the bottom of the page will be interesting as most will read this email in the morning.

[HEMIzygote]

Here is the entire text of the article so you don't have to register to read the whole article.

Students protest campus gun policies
Matt McGowan
Issue date: 10/25/07

Some Texas Tech students who believe concealed hand guns should be allowed on campus with proper certification are wearing empty holsters this week to protest gun-control policies.
Hoping to raise awareness about the issues surrounding the prohibition of licensed firearm possession on college campuses, students attending approximately 110 college institutions nationwide organized and executed a protest at their respective campuses.
An estimated 6,000 members of Students for Concealed Carry on Campus, the national organization of discontented gun owners, will symbolize their plight all week by donning empty holsters.
"For the most part it's symbolic," said Scott Lewis, a spokesman for the organization and Austin resident. "We want people to realize that license holders are left defenseless, and thereby everyone else is left defenseless. The practical point of the holster is that it is a good conversation starter. That's what we want; we want to start a dialogue."
The group, however, is not advocating just any possession of weapons, he said. It designed the protests specifically to promote licensed and responsible carrying of handguns throughout all parts of campuses.
"We were really careful to make sure everybody sent out notifications to the campuses, both the administration and the campus police - or if they don't have campus police, the local police," Lewis said. "We have a lot of people who wanted to protest, but we wanted to make sure they took the proper steps to ensure there weren't any misunderstandings."
Kyle Criswell, the representative of the organization's 50-member Tech chapter, said the shooting at Virginia Tech University in April 2007 motivated him to get involved and voice his opinion, which is why he joined the advocacy group and is wearing his empty holster this week.
"I think already we've had a pretty big impact. There are a lot of people who didn't know about us but think the same way we do," he said.
A lot of people have asked about the empty holster on his hip, Criswell said, and only one person, one of his professors, has disagreed with the goals of the organization but was impressed by the group's exercise of protest.
It is important for some people to have the sense of protection that gun possession provides, Lewis said, because the alternative is unacceptable in extreme circumstances. Legal gun possession on college campuses will ultimately make them safer.

"What is worst than an uncontested, execution-style massacre? This guy at Virginia Tech was walking from student to student, shooting them in the head at point-blank range," he said. "The chance that a couple of seconds of exchanged gunfire is going to cause more casualties than that is just baseless."
Simply banning guns from a particular area is a poor reason to call it safe, said Lewis.
"I'm a very strong believer that all rules governing concealed carry should be based on in-depth analysis and facts, not on feel-good rules that make people feel better," he said. "I think gun-free zones make people feel safer, but that doesn't mean they are."
Weapons have no place on college campuses, said Doug Pennington, assistant director of communications at the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, a grassroots political organization based in Washington D.C. Firearms are the last thing students should be thinking about when they attend classes, he said.
"The answer is not more guns on campuses. The answer is fewer guns on campuses." Penington said. "When it comes to colleges and universities, they should be havens - a bastion of safety. You're supposed to go to class to learn stuff, not wondering if the person next to you is competent enough to actually possess a firearm."
He said he and his colleagues at the Brady Campaign believe a hypothetical situation in which students are shooting at each other is unthinkable lunacy, a sentiment about which the organization is not subtle.
"Who is the expert marksman in that situation? Who?" Pennington said. "Isn't it possible that there is going to be some sort of John-Woo shootout in the French class at Virginia Tech? I mean, how many students in the middle end up getting shot?"
Col. Gordon Hoffman of the Texas Tech Police Department said he understands both sides of the argument and respects the students' right to voice their opinion. Also, he said it is worth noting the perspective of police officers responding to these worst-case scenarios.

"You see somebody firing a weapon, and how are we to know if that person is a potential victim defending their-self or if they're the active shooter," he said. "That's where I'm coming from. I know it's an emotional issue, and I can see some pros and cons, but I can go against more than I can for."
Sgt. Lynn Rohland of the Department of Public Safety at the University of Utah, said students at the university are allowed to carry weapons with them while attending classes as long as they have a license to do so.
She said the department has not taken any special measures to accommodate the legality of possession, but it has not had any incident there involving students with guns on campus.
In addition to legal consequences, students who violate the university's policies on weapon possession and are convicted of doing so could face consequences of varying severity, depending on the details of the incident, said Ethan Logan, managing director of Tech's Student Judicial Programs.

[longtooth]

Two things I am very vocal about & take EVERY opportunity.
The Word of the Lord. And
2nd Amemdment Rights.
Weeeellll, yesterdays account. Since this is the gun forum & the Empty holster thread, it is evident what this will be about.

Yesterday while in Sam's I saw a youg man w/ an empty holster. He was probably in the lated 20s early 30s age group. Not the age of the majority of college students but not at all too old. SFA is 20 miles from here & Angelina Community College in Lufkin.

Me: Hey young man, I really like that empty holster. (It is an Uncle Mike's nylon)
He: Uhhh, well, thank you.
Me: How is the protest going?
He: Uhhh, what protest?
Uh-oh, I stepped in a mud hole now. But have done that before too.
Told him of the "Empty Holster Protest" due to VT & he listened w/ interest.
He: No I just filled up some deer feeders & this is for my snake gun. Didn't want to take the holster off so just left the gun in the truck.
Me: OK, well if you get a CHL you dont have to leave it in the truck.
He: Yea I have thought of that.
He is looking up & down now & says. "Is yours empty "
Me: No sir, I am not in college. Have a great day.
And we went our ways.

[Kalrog]

Nice exchange LT! Stories like that are good.

[SigM4]

Didn't know if this link had been posted yet, but its a Washington Times editorial from one of the organizers of the protest.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps/pbc ... 40004/1013

[glock19springtx]

I will be wearing my empty holster to class. I might raise more of an issue being on the teaching side of the class room, but I read the employee crap and it said nothing about not being able to participate in rallys and marches.

I hope I raise some questions being the fact that none of my lectures seat less than 400 students. I think I will even write a note on the board in the corner stating it and welcome all students to participate aswell.

Would you give us an update on how this went?

[WarHawk-AVG]

http://concealedcampus.org/

[HEMIzygote]

I will be wearing my empty holster to class. I might raise more of an issue being on the teaching side of the class room, but I read the employee crap and it said nothing about not being able to participate in rallys and marches.

I hope I raise some questions being the fact that none of my lectures seat less than 400 students. I think I will even write a note on the board in the corner stating it and welcome all students to participate aswell.

Would you give us an update on how this went?

Sure! I wore it all week to class and had several students look and a few even asked questions before class the first 3 days. On Thursday, the campus paper released an article detailing the purpose and I'm sure that answered many silent, wondering minds.

As for the faculty, not one asked the purpose of it. Many looked, but I guess they assumed it was for my cell phone or PDA.

I'm not sure the success of the protest on the Tech campus as I didn't see an another protester on the Tech campus.

[DaveT]

I don't think Russell is saying that these types are reasonable. I can't help but wonder if some people aren't creating "witch hunts" out of this terrorism-watch business. There are certainly people in this country that would interpret an empty holster as a threat.

Exactly my thoughts.

An empty holster implies that the person wearing the empty holster has a gun. It might not be on the person, but wearing the empty holster as a means of protest goes against the very basic premise of concealed carry.

That's why this was done with broad advance publicity, and after organizers made personal contact with the universities in question.

The very basic premise of concealed carry is that you have be able to do so. Concealed carry is illegal on most campuses, thus the protest.

Reading through all the post by readers at the bottom of the Texas Tech newspaper article provided above, this reply sums up exactly what I was trying to express earlier:

George Gant
posted 10/25/07 @ 1:41 PM CST
There's just something very unnerving about an individual who feels compelled to carry a cancealed weapon on a college campus. Let's get a picture of each of the guys/girls with an empty hoster and post it on the wall of the Student Union and the Daily Toreador.

Some feel they have Second Amendment right to carry cancealed weapons. The rest have the Right to Know who these individuals happen to be.

It is sad, but some folks do think that way, and that is exactly what I was predicting would be part of the reaction to the empty holster protest.

[CLTX11]

News article:


DENTON, Texas -- A group of students from the University of North Texas is participating in a national effort to change state laws barring concealed handguns on college campuses.

The students are wearing empty gun holsters on campus as they push to carry guns in them.

Dennis Henley, 21, is one of the students protesting his inability to carry a concealed handgun. He wears the leather holster in plain sight as he moves between classes.

He is one of about 20 students at UNT participating in the empty holster campaign. Henley said the Virginia Tech massacre is one reason he wants to carry a gun.

A spokesperson at UNT would only say that the university supports any student's right to free expression. It would take a change in state law in order for licensed concealed handguns to be carried on any campus.


http://www.nbc5i.com/news/14451790/deta ... dlineclick