Anti-Gun question...

[surfTX]

First, just introducing myself. Found this through TFL and so far it has been very helpful and provided way more information than my dial-up can handle. I currently do not have a CHL nor do i own a handgun due to my current cash flow situation, but none the less i feel that education is key and am starting now.
My question deals with those that are less receptive to the idea of particularly handguns and thus the CC of such. More so those that are close family members. I know there are a lot of basic and superficial answers to this question, but i would like to know more of what any of you have peroally experienced and how you delt with it, hopefully successfully. I'm sure that with the number of CHL licesncees on this site there have been many people who have ran into this situation and that could offer advice. Thanks in advance and thanks for all that i've learnded thus far.

[nitrogen]

I'm a former anti, that "saw the light" about 11 or so years ago, so I can give some personal light to the subject.

A large percentage of people who are antis (at least 80% in my opinion) are ignorant.

Your average anti-gunner is a suburban or urban person who has never even seen a gun close up, or ever handled one. Most of these people, because they've never had any experience with guns, the only exposure they get to them is in movies, TV and through the news media.

Also, realize that most writers for TV and movies, as well as reporters are as ignorant about guns as the people they are writing for. Seeing a pattern?

Not having any first hand experience with guns, and seeing them portrayed negatively by other ignorant folks, of course people get a negative stereotype about guns. Hearing the subconcious "Guns are tools used by bad people" message.

Imagine, for a moment. You've never held a gun. You've never seen a gun in real life. You then read quotes like this:

* The Brady Law, however, does not apply to the sale of firearms by non-licensees. Every year, there are thousands of gun sales without background checks by vendors claiming not to need a federal license because they are merely selling from their "personal collection" of guns.[2] Many of these sales take place at gun shows and the problem has become known as the "gun show loophole."

* Do You Feel Safer Sitting Next to Someone Carrying a Gun?

* Many people say no to that question, and for good reason. Most people who have permits to carry concealed weapons - people who are not law enforcement officers - have limited training and undergo less testing than even a novice police recruit. Yet they are led to believe that, given a dangerous situation, they will use deadly force with the same care and consideration that police officers will. Once a bullet leaves a gun, who is to say that it will stop only a criminal?

* Does a Gun in the Home Make You Safer?

No. Despite claims by the National Rifle Association (NRA) that you need a gun in your home to protect yourself and your family, public health research demonstrates that the person most likely to shoot you or a family member with a gun already has the keys to your house. Simply put: guns kept in the home for self-protection are more often used to kill somebody you know than to kill in self-defense

Wow, that's scary! If I've never had any experience with guns, reading this would put me off my feed! (In fact, it DID when I was younger.)
It's a purely emotional argument, meant to affect people with no experiences to the contrary.

[frankie_the_yankee]

Imagine, for a moment. You've never held a gun. You've never seen a gun in real life. You then read quotes like this:

* The Brady Law, however, does not apply to the sale of firearms by non-licensees. Every year, there are thousands of gun sales without background checks by vendors claiming not to need a federal license because they are merely selling from their "personal collection" of guns.[2] Many of these sales take place at gun shows and the problem has become known as the "gun show loophole."

* Do You Feel Safer Sitting Next to Someone Carrying a Gun?

* Many people say no to that question, and for good reason. Most people who have permits to carry concealed weapons - people who are not law enforcement officers - have limited training and undergo less testing than even a novice police recruit. Yet they are led to believe that, given a dangerous situation, they will use deadly force with the same care and consideration that police officers will. Once a bullet leaves a gun, who is to say that it will stop only a criminal?

* Does a Gun in the Home Make You Safer?

No. Despite claims by the National Rifle Association (NRA) that you need a gun in your home to protect yourself and your family, public health research demonstrates that the person most likely to shoot you or a family member with a gun already has the keys to your house. Simply put: guns kept in the home for self-protection are more often used to kill somebody you know than to kill in self-defense

Wow, that's scary! If I've never had any experience with guns, reading this would put me off my feed! (In fact, it DID when I was younger.)
It's a purely emotional argument, meant to affect people with no experiences to the contrary.

Well done.

[Dougmyers5]

What you need to get across to your anti gun friends and relatives is that ( You have not changed!) Only your ability to protect yourself and your love ones has improved!
The world is an ever changing place that requires people too adjust to from time to time, you have made a minor adjustment thats all.

[yobdab]

I have always stated to relatives that it's a right guaranteed by the 2nd amend and it's part of America's heritage. I also state I feel everyone is obligated to make sure that the rights of American citizens are exercised.

It's not only for protection but a statement of our freedoms.

[seamusTX]

Welcome to the forum, Surf.

Number 1, don't say a word. The number of people who know whether I have a CHL or carry would fit in a phone booth (if I could find one). No one else needs to know.

Dial-up is a pain, but there are plenty of older threads about the negative consequences of talking about it at work or to extended family.

If the subject is unavoidable, prepare yourself in advance with the facts and arguments. There is plenty of good information in this forum. Another source is http://www.gunfacts.info/.

- Jim

[surfTX]

Ya i agree that most of the anti feelings stem from emotion and also a lack of knowledge. The uninformed part is easier to deal w/, but the emotional one is what seems to be a little trickier. Particularly my SO is the one that has the most isssues. She agrees with the logic that i provide, but when it's all said and done it doesn't change much. I've got it from "i cant live in a house w/ guns" to "i don't wanna ever see them or know about them." Slight progress. But i would rather not every single time i go to the range be a 30 minute conversation about how i might get shot. Many logically defenses to that statement, but again no dice. Thanks to all for the input

[WarHawk-AVG]

Yes the bulk of the anti's don't know...period...its always best to know the facts!

Its always good to have a ready supply of knowledge on hand that you can share

Gun Facts

Just like the "oh my God! You ride a motorcycle..you are gonna die!" people...once they KNOW about then they no longer fear them.

Educate them...take them to the range and let them feel the recoil of a pistol and know the joy of hitting a 10x ring...then they will understand just as you do

[mcub]

"She" would who, wife, and sister, mother?? Girl friend??

Also, have you considered that instead of dealing with emotional issues with logical answers, you could try emotional ones? , starting with why she is so afraid of guns????

[seamusTX]

This kind of discomfort eases with time and experience. If you can get her to participate or even watch a ladies-only class, it might make a world of difference. I don't know where you live, but PSC in Pearland and Thunder Gun Range north of Houston have excellent ladies' classes.

- Jim

[CompVest]

Occassionally, an invite to the range so the spouse can see how safe the activity is, helps. It can work two ways: the spouse might actually go or the spouse decides it isn't worth saying anything if they have to come up with reasons not to go with you.

[BobCat]

"But i would rather not every single time i go to the range be a 30 minute conversation about how i might get shot."

Well, you can tell her you know a guy on the internet who is a member of a rifle / pistol club that has been around since 1936, has 3-5 matches (various disciplines) per month as well as informal shooting, about 1,000 members, and has never has a firearms-related injury. Twisted ankles and bee stings, yes. Shootings, no.

When I started carrying, my wife - who is not anti but not a firearms enthusiast - seemed uncomfortable. When I asked what the problem was, she asked me, "If someone came in this supermarket and robbed that bank kiosk, what would you do?" I looked around and told her I'd take cover with her, behind the shelf of canned goods - best "cover" around. Once reassured that I did not wish to intevene - was not imagining myself a "crime fighter" or "hero" and was not "looking for trouble" - she was ok with my carrying.

If you have a .22 (rifle or pistol), see if you can get your SO to go to the range with you "just this once - prove you have an open mind" - go over the Four Rules, and ask her to fire at the paper a time or two. Stress safety, reassure her you are keeping an eye out for safety, and praise her efforts, however well or poorly she shoots at first. I think you will see a change. Just my 2¢ and worth every penny. Best of luck.

Regards,
Andrew

[seamusTX]

I asked the range officer if they had ever had an accidental shooting. He said they had not, in more than 10 years. There is about one accidental shooting at a range a year in the U.S.

The trip to the range is more dangerous than the time you spend there.

- Jim

[shootthesheet]

I always take the position that I am right and going to do what I feel is right unless someone can give me a logical and non-emotion based reason for changing my mind. It is a position of strength because I must know the other persons arguments as well as the facts and truth of any given subject. Learn everything you can and do not give up. She will except it or she will not. That has nothing to do with who you are or what you believe. My wife was the same way. And while she is not a "gun nut" she is supportive of me being one. I have, for years, pointed out the reasons and situations for her every time she asked. I give her explanations, patience, and understanding. Mutual respect is only ever gained thru strength. If she cannot respect you and your values then she cannot except you and will never respect you. That is just the way I see it. Love her, respect her, listen to her and make your own decisions while allowing her to make her own. Most peoples bark is much worse than their bite. That is just my opinion.

[Wildscar]

This was post before on this Forum but I think it fits here.

http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... ght=things

Also there is another site that some of the other women of the board post that is good for some antis to read. Its about a cornered cat or something like that.

Also just sit down and watch the nightly news. There is always some on there about reason to have a way to defend yourself.

Ask her what does she do to prepare for a tornado or fire or if she keeps jumper cables in the trunk. Or heck do you have tools around the house to take careof problems when they arise. The firearm is just a precaution to prepare for the unthinkable.

This is a few months old, I seached but didn't see it posted.

http://www.1911forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=176240

1. We don’t carry firearms so that we can ignore other basics of personal safety. Every permit holder that I know realizes that almost all dangerous situations can be avoided by vigilance, alertness and by simply making wise choices about where one goes and what one does. We don’t walk down dark alleys. We lock our cars. We don’t get intoxicated in public or hang out around people who do. We park our cars in well lighted spots and don’t hang out in bad parts of town where we have no business. A gun is our last resort, not our first.

2. We don’t think we are cops, spies, or superheros. We aren’t hoping that somebody tries to rob the convenience store while we are there so we can shoot a criminal. We don’t take it upon ourselves to get involved in situations that are better handled by a 911 call or by simply standing by and being a good witness. We don’t believe our guns give us any authority over our fellow citizens. We also aren't here to be your unpaid volunteer bodyguard. We'll be glad to tell you where we trained and point you to some good gun shops if you feel you want to take this kind of responsibility for your personal safety. Except for extrordinary circumstances your business is your business, don't expect us to help you out of situations you could have avoided.

3. We are LESS likely, not more likely, to be involved in fights or “rage� incidents than the general public. We recognize, better than many unarmed citizens, that we are responsible for our actions. We take the responsibility of carrying a firearm very seriously. We know that loss of temper, getting into fights or angrily confronting someone after a traffic incident could easily escalate into a dangerous situation. We are more likely to go out of our way to avoid these situations. We don’t pull our guns to settle arguments or to attempt to threaten people into doing what we want.

4. We are responsible gun owners. We secure our firearms so that children and other unauthorized people cannot access them. Most of us have invested in safes, cases and lock boxes as well as other secuity measures to keep our firearms secure. Many of us belong to various organizations that promote firearms safety and ownership.

5. Guns are not unsafe or unpredictable. Modern firearms are well made precision instruments. Pieces do not simply break off causing them to fire. A hot day will not set them off. Most modern firearms will not discharge even if dropped. There is no reason to be afraid of a gun simply laying on a table or in a holster. It is not going to discharge on its own.

6. We do not believe in the concept of “accidental discharges�. There are no accidental discharges only negligent discharges or intentional discharges. We take responsibility for our actions and have learned how to safely handle firearms. Any case you have ever heard of about a gun “going off� was the result of negligence on somebody’s part. Our recognition of our responsibility and familiarity with firearms makes us among the safest firearms owners in America.

7. Permit holders do their best to keep our concealed weapons exactly that: concealed. However, there are times with an observant fellow citizen may spot our firearm or the print of our firearm under our clothes. We are very cognizant that concerns about terrorism and crime are in the forefront of the minds of most citizens. We also realize that our society does much to condition our fellow citizens to have sometimes irrational fears about firearms. We would encourage citizens who do happen to spot someone carrying a firearm to use good judgment and clear thinking if they feel to need to take action. Please recognize that it’s very uncommon for a criminal to use a holster. However, if you feel the need to report having spotted a firearm we would ask that you please be specific and detailed in your call to the police or in your report to a store manager or private security. Please don’t generalize or sensationalize what you observed. Comments like “there’s a guy running around in the store with a gun� or even simply “I saw a man with a gun in the store� could possibly cause a misunderstanding as to the true nature of the incident.

8. The fact that we carry a firearm to any given place does not mean that we believe that place to be inherently unsafe. If we believe a place to be unsafe, most of us would avoid that place all together if possible. However, we recognize that trouble could occur at any place and at any time. Criminals do not observe “gun free zones�. If trouble does come, we do not want the only armed persons to be perpetrators. Therefore, we don't usually make a determination about whether or not to carry at any given time based on "how safe" we think a location is.

9. Concealed weapon permit holders are an asset to the public in times of trouble. The fact that most permit holders have the good judgment to stay out of situations better handled by a 911 call or by simply being a careful and vigilant witness does not mean that we would fail to act in situations where the use of deadly force is appropriate to save lives. Review of high profile public shooting incidents shows that when killers are confronted by armed resistance they tend to either break off the attack and flee or choose to end their own life. Lives are saved when resistance engages a violent criminal. Lives are lost when the criminal can do as he pleases.

10. The fact that criminals know that some of the population may be armed at any given time helps to deter violence against all citizens. Permit holders don’t believe that every person should necessarily be armed. We recognize that some people may not be temperamentally suited to carry a firearm or simply may wish not to for personal reasons. However we do encourage you to respect our right to arm ourselves. Even if you choose not to carry a firearm yourself please oppose measures to limit the ability of law abiding citizens to be armed. As mentioned before: criminals do not observe “gun free zones�. Help by not supporting laws that require citizens to be unarmed victims