Front Sight Focus---Or Not...

[dlh]

The "Youtube experts" seem to be divided on this one with some (there is a navy seal) recommending front sight focus and others not. Maybe it is like which church should you attend...

I have never had to draw my handgun in a defensive life and death situation so not sure if I should "point and shoot"..."front sight focus"...or some other technique. When I go to the range I practice all three---the usual lining up front and rear sights....front sight focus...and point and shoot.

Opinions, anyone?

[MojaveMan]

I am an advocate of a "hard focus on the front sight". Its the way I was trained, and it really works for me.
What ever you determine is your preferred method, stick with ONE and train with it. Don't try to do all three.

It sounds like you might be relying on YouTube for your training. I highly recommend enrolling in a training course or three.

[C-dub]

Opinions, anyone?

Of course we have opinions.

My own real life experience is limited to IDPA and IDPA style self defense matches. At self defense distances, figure less than 20 feet and probably more often than not, bad breath distance, getting your handgun out in time will be the biggest challenge. After that, point and shoot will be GOOD enough if you even have time to bring it up that far.

Probably the best tool I purchased to aid in my training was a timer. IIRC, it used to take me as long as 1.5-2 seconds to get my first shot off and on target. (i.e. center mass) After some practice, also IIRC, that time came down to around 1.2-1.3 seconds. Then I began to analyze the whole thing and decided to try it at 3-5 feet without bringing the gun up to eye level for aiming. My first shots dropped easily below 1 second and with further practice was getting 2-3 off, center mass, in under 1 second. Not regularly, but usually within 0.97-1.2 or so.

IMH, non-expert, opinion, at extremely close range self defense distances, getting the first shot off will be crucial. Aiming will be instinctual and precision non-existent. That can be for a little further out. Not bad breath distance. Plus, your off hand might be busy fending off the BG, so your usual two handed grip or stance or whatever has already gone out the window. Now, you're in a fight for your life.

[Rafe]

Opinions, anyone?

Of course we have opinions.

My own real life experience is limited to IDPA and IDPA style self defense matches. At self defense distances, figure less than 20 feet and probably more often than not, bad breath distance, getting your handgun out in time will be the biggest challenge. After that, point and shoot will be GOOD enough if you even have time to bring it up that far.

Probably the best tool I purchased to aid in my training was a timer. IIRC, it used to take me as long as 1.5-2 seconds to get my first shot off and on target. (i.e. center mass) After some practice, also IIRC, that time came down to around 1.2-1.3 seconds. Then I began to analyze the whole thing and decided to try it at 3-5 feet without bringing the gun up to eye level for aiming. My first shots dropped easily below 1 second and with further practice was getting 2-3 off, center mass, in under 1 second. Not regularly, but usually within 0.97-1.2 or so.

IMH, non-expert, opinion, at extremely close range self defense distances, getting the first shot off will be crucial. Aiming will be instinctual and precision non-existent. That can be for a little further out. Not bad breath distance. Plus, your off hand might be busy fending off the BG, so your usual two handed grip or stance or whatever has already gone out the window. Now, you're in a fight for your life.

If your like 8 ft or less from a threat you don't even want to try to extend the gun do you? I mean if you extend all the way to get any kind of sight picture aren't you just making the gun easier to knock aside or take away? And your times back up that if a bad guy can cover the distance in two steps cutting a half second off the time to draw and fire is a really big deal. I remember one guy, I think it was Kelly MacCann, talk about the whole pistol presentation thing being like a continuum. That you had to be able to fire from a retention position if your in physical contact with the bad guy and be able to to fire at any other point in the process of extending to a full sight picture, and that circumstance and distance dictated when the shots broke. In other words you shouldn't get used to practicing just one way because if your fighting him off with your left hand you can't get a sight picture at all and if it's a 15 yard shot no way you should be firing from the hip.

[Paladin]

If you need a precision shot like a head shot at 25 yards or a hostage-taker shot then I strongly recommend the traditional sight focus.

LTC Rex Applegate wrote in 1976:

Chapter 5: Combat Use of the Handgun

...In reality, after the target, aimed-shot phase of training has been completed and the shooter becomes familiar with his weapon, he is only about 50% combat efficient, because the conditions under which most combat shooting occurs are entirely different from those presented in the bulls-eye type of training.

...The best-descriptive term for using the handgun in combat without the aid of sights is shooting by “instinctive pointing.” This is a close-quarter method and should not generally be advocated for distances greater than fifty feet. Combat proficiency at ranges of fifty feet and less will be attained by using this technique, Almost all pistol shooting affrays will take place within this distance...

U.S. Marine Corps 12-80

I strongly recommend reading the entire Chapter 5. If you read and understand Chapter 5 you will know far more than 90% of shooters.

[Charles L. Cotton]

This is an excellent and often not fully understood subject. I teach all of my basic and intermediate students to focus on the front sight. Whether they need a flash sight alignment/sight picture or near-perfect alignment depends upon distance and aspects of the target. (Ex. dreaded hostage shot v. full-on stupid threat target.) I equally stress proper grip and, contrary to many instructors, proper placement/alignment of the thumbs. This is absolutely critical for shot placement under stress, especially the extreme stress of a deadly confrontation when you know you may die very soon.

After students achieve a certain skill level, I tell them the truth about threat-focus under extreme stress. I also tell them that, when startled, they will not be capable of seeing the front sight for some period of time, due to physical changes in the eyes. This is why proper grip and thumb alignment is so critical for those sudden and quick shots on which your life will depend. Proper handgun presentation must be automatic and reflexive without requiring conscious thought. This is why dry-fire presentation practice at home is so important.

So my answer is I practice and teach front sight focus, but with the knowledge it isn't likely to happen during a fight for your life. Sometimes it won't even happen in a match. This is the greatest benefit to using a red dot sight. RDS isn't only for us old guys with old eyes. They make threat-focus intentional, instinctive and accurate.

Chas.

[Paladin]

Roger Phillip's "Point Shooting Progressions" has a good explanation of various techniques and what situations those techniques work best.

[Paladin]

RDS isn't only for us old guys with old eyes. They make threat-focus intentional, instinctive and accurate.

...and I really wish my eye's weren't getting old

[canvasbck]

As a competitive shooter, I used to believe that 7 yards and in the speed that you gain was worth the slight sacrifice in accuracy. I can now unequivocally state that is NOT the case. Beyond about 2 yards, the most efficient way to shoot is with a perfect grip AND a focused front sight. This is not intuition or what I feel like is best, this is thousands of rounds with the math being done. For my skill set, it's almost never worth losing focus on the front site. For anyone with a lesser skill set than USPSA B class or IDPA master, its never worth losing focus on the front site.

[Soccerdad1995]

As a competitive shooter, I used to believe that 7 yards and in the speed that you gain was worth the slight sacrifice in accuracy. I can now unequivocally state that is NOT the case. Beyond about 2 yards, the most efficient way to shoot is with a perfect grip AND a focused front sight. This is not intuition or what I feel like is best, this is thousands of rounds with the math being done. For my skill set, it's almost never worth losing focus on the front site. For anyone with a lesser skill set than USPSA B class or IDPA master, its never worth losing focus on the front site.

for matches, at least in my experience.

Charles makes some interesting points above regarding real life scenarios and inability to see the front sight, though. I do like the idea of practicing firing at different points during the draw and firearm presentation. I also like the idea of practicing firing while backing up. IDPA is good training for this.

[LeonCarr]

The terminology I like to use is, "When the metal is surrounded by meat, send it".

In other words after you draw the handgun and the handgun moves from the side of your body into the lower part of your peripheral vision, generally the front sight protruding above the slide, or barrel if using a revolver, will be the first thing you see. Before the front sight moves down into the rear sight area, you can see it and it is surrounded by the bad guy's body. With practice out to 5-7 yards this will result in a hit in the bad guy's upper torso more rapidly than waiting for perfect sight alignment and then front sight focus. I guess this can be termed as instinctive/ non front sight focus shooting.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

[WTR]

If you need a precision shot like a head shot at 25 yards or a hostage-taker shot then I strongly recommend the traditional sight focus.
.

If that is what you need......use a rifle.

[Soccerdad1995]

If you need a precision shot like a head shot at 25 yards or a hostage-taker shot then I strongly recommend the traditional sight focus.
.

If that is what you need......use a rifle.

If you happen to have one handy, of course.

[Paladin]

As a competitive shooter, I used to believe that 7 yards and in the speed that you gain was worth the slight sacrifice in accuracy. I can now unequivocally state that is NOT the case. Beyond about 2 yards, the most efficient way to shoot is with a perfect grip AND a focused front sight. This is not intuition or what I feel like is best, this is thousands of rounds with the math being done. For my skill set, it's almost never worth losing focus on the front site. For anyone with a lesser skill set than USPSA B class or IDPA master, its never worth losing focus on the front site.

You make an important point for competition shooting. Traditional sighted shooting is important. I practice it and have out shot a whole lot of people with traditional sighted shooting in competition. I have used traditional sighted shooting successfully in force-on-force.

This thread is a discussion of life and death shooting. USPSA and IDPA targets do not shoot back. Nor do USPSA or IDPA competitions take place in low-light. Traditional sighted shooting is only part of the answer to life and death situations. The situation dictates technique.

Attempting to use traditional sighted shooting in all situations has predictable results:

data from the same report for the NYPD during 1994-2000, when the NYPD was far more semiautomatic heavy, are interesting, and sobering. At 0-2 yards, the hit rate was 69%, but from 3-7 yards, only 19%. With increasing distance the hit rate dramatically declined, with only 2% from 16-25 yards and 1% at 25 yards and greater.

HARSH REALITY

[Paladin]

If you need a precision shot like a head shot at 25 yards or a hostage-taker shot then I strongly recommend the traditional sight focus.
.

If that is what you need......use a rifle.

If you happen to have one handy, of course.

Yes, a rifle is faster and more accurate ... if you have one... and it is functioning