I would like your comments

[wileyj]

This morning early (0530), I woke up to find my wife getting dressed to go to work. She is a manager at a Sylvan Learning Center in a Houston suburb and needed to finish some work she did nto finish by 2330 last night. It is in a good neighborhood but the building complex is composed of a couple of buildings with landscaped courtyards; lots of pla♦ces for someone to be hidden. While it is probably safe, I was concerned about the time of day. I accompanied her in my car with a pistol in my pocket; got her locked in and came back to the house for coffee.
My question for this august group is: "Would a Sylvan Learning Center be considered a school?"
I would not advocate or allow (as much as I am able) her to carry a weapon using her CHL when the kids were present but in the situation like this morning, would you think that this location would be restricted by law as a school?
Thanks for your comments
..wiley

[seamusTX]

First off, your wife must be very dedicated to her work. If I got that amount of sleep, I'd be a zombie.

I think a prosecutor could make the case that a Sylvan Learning Center is a school. I think a dog obedience school could be considered a school. The law is vaguely written.

There's also the problem of educational institutions that are in a large building with unrelated offices. What are the premises of the school? The whole building?

But, as I've said many times, the police don't have X-ray eyes. They need a reason to stop, question, or search you. You get away with what you get away with.

- Jim

[Venus Pax]

As a teacher, I've never thought of Sylvan learning center as a school, but a business offering tutorials. I guess there's a possibility that the law might see it as a school.
I must agree with seamus; if it's hidden and no students are present, you're okay. If you were to need it, you would be glad you had it, and I think you would have a decent argument that no students were present at the business when you entered with your concealed handgun.

[wileyj]

Thanks folks. I agree with your thoughts. Since I had no other guidance this morning, I went with her. I do not think this will be normal activity for her but I have to be concerned in this day and age. This location is in Champions in NW Houston - a really nice neighborhood but even so, one cannot be too careful.
I did not even enter the building this morning but made sure she got in and locked the doors.
We would never consider carrying with children in attendance but at early in the morning... well, that is a different story.
thanks again
..wiley

[Liberty]

Thanks folks. I agree with your thoughts. Since I had no other guidance this morning, I went with her. I do not think this will be normal activity for her but I have to be concerned in this day and age. This location is in Champions in NW Houston - a really nice neighborhood but even so, one cannot be too careful.
I did not even enter the building this morning but made sure she got in and locked the doors.
We would never consider carrying with children in attendance but at early in the morning... well, that is a different story.
thanks again
..wiley

Are there any bad guys left awake early on a Saturday morning?

[seamusTX]

Are there any bad guys left awake early on a Saturday morning?

I have seen junkies stumbling around at dawn. I think they may be most dangerous at that time, because they're strung out and trying to find another fix.

(A crack house was raided three blocks from my house yesterday: http://news.galvestondailynews.com/stor ... 90c81994a3)

There are also rapists who exploit random opportunities.

- Jim

[DoubleJ]

you might also consider someone already inside, hidden from view.
yes, that's the paranoid's thought process, but still.
you get her to the door, she goes in, locks door, you leave, someone in back office hiding now has full run of the place.

not trying to be a schmuck, just thinking out loud.
well, as out loud as one can be, typing on a computer...

[stevie_d_64]

Sylvan Learning Centers "probably" have to be licenced or accredited to operate as a place of learning/school...

But since they are a "private" company, I'm still erring on the side that most would consider it to be a "school" in a technical sense...

But the beauty of the system is that the parking lot is stil the parking lot...

But I doubt the risk is any lower that other places that have somewhat of a controlled access and egress from the premises...

I believe the comments so far paint a good picture (as always) as far as carrying to the facility, but leaving it locked up in the vehicle...This is the hurdle we must accept for now I suppose...

[srothstein]

Having done some quick research just now, and by no means exclusive or thorough, I think an argument could be made that the only schools that are referenced in this code are public and private elementary or secondary schools.

The term is not specifically defined in this section of code. As a general rule, you would use either the normal use of the word, or if there is a technical meaning, the technical meaning of the word. I think the average person would think of the word school to include the above referenced schools, but not such things as Sylvan, a day care center (even a Montessori School), my police academy, or a university. So the normal use of the word would say Sylvan is not a school.

But the word "school" has a strict technical definition in the law. It is defined in Chapter 28 and in Chapter 46, though just for those sections. They both use the same definition, which I showed above. The Code Construction Act (chapter 311 of the Government Code) says that this definition should be used.

Thus, I think only those four types of schools are included.

Then we would also have to look at the definition of "educational institution". This is defined in most places as a private or public institution of post secondary education. It does include in some of the definitions religious schools and career schools. Interestingly enough, the first place I found the phrase explicitly defined without being part of a larger phrase was in the occupations code section for real estate agents. There it is a school other than a college or university that is authorized to offer a course in real estate or real estate inspection. It is also explicitly defined in Vernon's Civil Statutes Title 109 (about pensions) as a school district or open enrollment charter school.

So, I feel confident that school or educational institution means an elementary school, secondary school, college or university, religious school (be careful near churches), and career schools. As a general rule, it would offer a structured program of instruction in a classroom setting.

In other words, the only place I feel we would not normally consider a school that the law might apply to is a religious school, like Sunday School or Vacation Bible Camp at a church. But, by specifically listing churches separately, with the requirement that they be posted, there could be a valid argument that they are not included and only what we would consider traditional schools was intended.

This is not legal advice and my research was solely based on a short time with the codes ont he state web site. It is not conclusive and involves no search for any case law on the subject. Be careful and do not be the test case until we get this section cleared up.

Charles, could we get TSRA to work on adding a section for 46.01 next session? I suggest we define the term "school or education institution" as a public or private elementary or secondary school, or an accredited college or university. That would probably match up with what the legislators intended to cover and make it clear without too much fighting. I would love to see the college and university part left out, but will go for this as a step to clarify the law.

[Photoman]

I would not advocate or allow (as much as I am able) her to carry a weapon using her CHL when the kids were present....

Why? Is she going to go "postal" and shoot a bunch of kids? Don't let those lefties meld you mind man.

Regarding the question, I don't see Sylvan learning center as a school. I see it as a business providing a service to clients, not students. Just because the service they provide is related to school, doesn't make them a school too.

[stevie_d_64]

I would not advocate or allow (as much as I am able) her to carry a weapon using her CHL when the kids were present....

Why? Is she going to go "postal" and shoot a bunch of kids? Don't let those lefties meld you mind man.

Regarding the question, I don't see Sylvan learning center as a school. I see it as a business providing a service to clients, not students. Just because the service they provide is related to school, doesn't make them a school too.

You have a good point there...

It is of course parsing words between "learning center" and "school"...

The service that they provide is still based upon a "school" persay, but the service is more focused and one on one that I can see...

But like I figure, its still going to be a borderline call...And the parking lot in my opinion is still open for business in my opinion...Its about like everywhere else I suppose...