Moderators: carlson1, Charles L. Cotton
I think most of us understand this is gambling. Judging from what I see, most of What has been invested has been recreattional. So far it's been a fun ride.Bitter Clinger wrote:
Why not just admit that it's gambling and that's the enjoyment? You don't need to fly to Vegas, but the drinks are free once you get there.
Have fun, I hope you do well. If you don't, just remember the house always wins.
I don't think you understand what a Ponzi really is. Trading cryptocurrencies is commodity trading, it's no different than pork bellies or precious metals.rotor wrote:It's only a profit when you sell. The question is.......... when do you sell? Still a Ponzi.The Annoyed Man wrote:It’s up to $723 of profit now.The Annoyed Man wrote:Now I’m up $670 since 12/22, and up $181 since 6:30 this morning. A friend of mine made a little over $4000 in the last 24 hours.
Exactly.Liberty wrote:I don't think you understand what a Ponzi really is. Trading cryptocurrencies is commodity trading, it's no different than pork bellies or precious metals.rotor wrote:It's only a profit when you sell. The question is.......... when do you sell? Still a Ponzi.The Annoyed Man wrote:It’s up to $723 of profit now.The Annoyed Man wrote:Now I’m up $670 since 12/22, and up $181 since 6:30 this morning. A friend of mine made a little over $4000 in the last 24 hours.
What is a Ponzi scheme?
A Ponzi scheme is an investment fraud that involves the payment of purported returns to existing investors from funds contributed by new investors. Ponzi scheme organizers often solicit new investors by promising to invest funds in opportunities claimed to generate high returns with little or no risk. In many Ponzi schemes, the fraudsters focus on attracting new money to make promised payments to earlier-stage investors to create the false appearance that investors are profiting from a legitimate business. [Crypto is a commodity, and is subject to the same kind of market forces that affect commodities trading. There is no fraud, but there are coins which fail to deliver the profits hoped for......JUST like stocks.]
Why do Ponzi schemes collapse?
With little or no legitimate earnings, Ponzi schemes require a consistent flow of money from new investors to continue. Ponzi schemes tend to collapse when it becomes difficult to recruit new investors or when a large number of investors ask to cash out. [In crypto, your earnings are real, and transferable. For instance, Bitcoin has a finite amount that exists. There will never be more Bitcoin than already exists. And yet, if you had bought $100 worth at the beginning, you’d be a multimillionaire in REAL $$ today. There are lots of real-world stories like this.]
How did Ponzi schemes get their name?
The schemes are named after Charles Ponzi, who duped thousands of New England residents into investing in a postage stamp speculation scheme back in the 1920s. At a time when the annual interest rate for bank accounts was five percent, Ponzi promised investors that he could provide a 50% return in just 90 days. Ponzi initially bought a small number of international mail coupons in support of his scheme, but quickly switched to using incoming funds from new investors to pay purported returns to earlier investors. [EVERY single person who buys into cryptocurrency from the very first transaction ever, ANYwhere in the world, buys in with fiat currency from some country or other. Once in, they can trade their existing coins for other coins, and they can add more by transferring more fiat currency into their exchange accounts. But furthermore, NO PROMISES ARE MADE, EVER, about how much you will profit from buying a certain crypto product. Gains are made purely through speculation, based on the value of the technology inherent in a coin which that individual coin brings to the market. This is why Etherium is such an outstanding performer. The technology platform it provides significantly advances the utility of cryptocurrency. Other coins have done well for the same reason, and yet others have failed to perform because whatever tech it was that they offered did not significantly advance the utility of that coin.]
What are some Ponzi scheme "red flags"?
Many Ponzi schemes share common characteristics. Look for these warning signs:
- High investment returns with little or no risk. Every investment carries some degree of risk, and investments yielding higher returns typically involve more risk. Be highly suspicious of any "guaranteed" investment opportunity. [There IS risk in cryptocurrency. It is on the investor to pick the right vehicle in which to put their money. Some perform, some do not, some do but are sluggish. But ALL of them can crash for short periods, due to sell-offs and profit-taking by big investors.......JUST like in the stock market. Etherium, the coin in which I am most invested, dropped from a high of $1215 last night to $1051 this morning. BUT... $1051 is still $339 higher than the most I have paid for it so far, so I am still about 40-45% ahead of the game. It will probably languish during the morning, and then start back up. The trend is what’s important.]
- Overly consistent returns. Investment values tend to go up and down over time, especially those offering potentially high returns. Be suspect of an investment that continues to generate regular, positive returns regardless of overall market conditions. [My gains have not been consistent. I’ve even taken brief losses, where it went below the price of my initial buy-in. At that point, I bought more, and I was vindicated in that decision by the market performance.]
- Unregistered investments. Ponzi schemes typically involve investments that have not been registered with the SEC or with state regulators. Registration is important because it provides investors with access to key information about the company's management, products, services, and finances. [US residents are barred from investing in certain coins, or using certain exchange platforms, unless those platforms are “USDA” approved by fedgov’t.]
- Unlicensed sellers. Federal and state securities laws require investment professionals and their firms to be licensed or registered. Most Ponzi schemes involve unlicensed individuals or unregistered firms. [US players in crypto are barred from dealing through unregistered entities. See the point immediately above.]
- Secretive and/or complex strategies. Avoiding investments you do not understand, or for which you cannot get complete information, is a good rule of thumb. [There’s nothing secretive about all of this. The blockchain is a FAR more open book than the stock exchange. Since you devise your own strategies, if you make them overly complex, that’s on you. Fortunately, it’s not terribly complicated strategy-wise to make money this way. You only have to do your homework and invest the time.]
- Issues with paperwork. Do not accept excuses regarding why you cannot review information about an investment in writing. Also, account statement errors and inconsistencies may be signs that funds are not being invested as promised. [The blockchain, which CAN. NOT. BE. HACKED, ensures that your investments are EXACTLY what you asked for. Furthermore, errors/inconsistencies are eliminated because the blockchain is a distributed ledger, over hundreds of thousands of computers all over the world. The rules say that they ALL have to agree. If one of them doesn’t, it gets cut out until its records are in compliance with all the others.]
- Difficulty receiving payments. Be suspicious if you do not receive a payment or have difficulty cashing out your investment. Keep in mind that Ponzi scheme promoters routinely encourage participants to "roll over" investments and sometimes promise returns offering even higher returns on the amount rolled over. [There’s no difficulty at all in converting your cryptocurrency back into USD and having it wire transferred back into your bank account.......JUST like I do with my Merrill Lynch account, or other investment accounts I have. Within a few hours or maybe a day, the funds are right there where I can write checks on them, or make ATM withdrawals, etc., etc., and the blockchain guarantees that it was the right amount transferred.]
Bitcoin is most definitely NOT history!! It is currently at $14,457.80 (right now, but it could gain another couple thousand $$ in one day easily). Here is a chart of Bitcoin’s performance over the last 12 months. Seeing a trend there? Even the bottoms of its dips are WAY higher than its highs not that long ago.philip964 wrote:I will plunk down 30 dollars on lotto tickets, but I never got around to buying a few bit coins.
What was the price when this thread started. It seems I remember talking about them when they were 20 bucks. Then they were 200 and of course I would never get them then.
It seemed during the big ransom ware epidemic when you had to pay the bad guys in bit coins they jumped to 1000 dollars. For future reference they got as high as what 17000 dollars (for one bitcoin)
Now I guess its history.
Is it the future or is it the last fool.
I don't think we will ever know.
You need to watch “Banking on Bitcoin”, a movie you can view on Netflix. It satisfactorily and directly addresses the “Tulip Bulb” scenario. The tulip bulb debacle lasted less than one year from beginning to end. Crypto has been around for several years now (since 2013 for Bitcoin), and it isn’t showing any signs of tanking.Bitter Clinger wrote:Tulip bulbs and beanie babies.
The greater fool theory states that the price of an object is determined not by its intrinsic value, but rather by irrational beliefs and expectations of market participants.
Why not just admit that it's gambling and that's the enjoyment? You don't need to fly to Vegas, but the drinks are free once you get there.
Have fun, I hope you do well. If you don't, just remember the house always wins.
https://nypost.com/2015/02/22/how-the-b ... n-crashed/The Annoyed Man wrote:You need to watch “Banking on Bitcoin”, a movie you can view on Netflix. It satisfactorily and directly addresses the “Tulip Bulb” scenario. The tulip bulb debacle lasted less than one year from beginning to end. Crypto has been around for several years now (since 2013 for Bitcoin), and it isn’t showing any signs of tanking.Bitter Clinger wrote:Tulip bulbs and beanie babies.
The greater fool theory states that the price of an object is determined not by its intrinsic value, but rather by irrational beliefs and expectations of market participants.
Why not just admit that it's gambling and that's the enjoyment? You don't need to fly to Vegas, but the drinks are free once you get there.
Have fun, I hope you do well. If you don't, just remember the house always wins.
What is the commodity? Show me the pork belly. There is no commodity. You own nothing material. No silver, gold or strength of a country. There is money to be made during the frenzy but I don't believe it is sustainable.Liberty wrote:I don't think you understand what a Ponzi really is. Trading cryptocurrencies is commodity trading, it's no different than pork bellies or precious metals.rotor wrote:It's only a profit when you sell. The question is.......... when do you sell? Still a Ponzi.The Annoyed Man wrote:It’s up to $723 of profit now.The Annoyed Man wrote:Now I’m up $670 since 12/22, and up $181 since 6:30 this morning. A friend of mine made a little over $4000 in the last 24 hours.
Please refute the following then, take your time, I can wait:rotor wrote:It's only a profit when you sell. The question is.......... when do you sell? Still a Ponzi.
