Today in Trump's 1st term as President

[Nuts]

Before Obama care I payed 4200 a year for me and my family with a small deductible. They paid part of my dr visits plus a percentage of everything until I met my deductible. The first year after my insurance went up 1200 a goer and my deductible doubled. A year after I changed jobs to a startup company and we couldn't afford insurance. I conbraed as long as I could and started looking into it. It was 6800 a year with a 12500 deductible per person with me paying 100% until I reached my deductible. Last year we finally where able to get it through work and we got a plan through a good co that is not involved with Obama care. My boss is paying 50% so the total plan is 14000 a year with about the same coverage I had before Obama.

A little statistics for you

After Obama care they got 20 mil people insured. 60% of them were already qualified fore other government programs but they drove as many off that didn't qualify for subsidies. So now we have just as many uninsured if not more and insurance has quadrupled. Tell me how that helps the country?

[mojo84]

Nuts,
Unfortunately your experience is not uncommon. One thing you said that I may tend to disagree but don't have hard stats to base an argument on is the 20 million additional insured as I believe that is just overinflated gov propaganda. However, the rest of your post is on point as far as I can tell.

People that qualify for subsidies, medicare and Medicaid have no real clue just how expensive and cost prohibitive medical insurance is for those that work or own a business and do not qualify for gov subsidy.

Here's a real life scenario that is very common. A family of 4 with a household income of $98,000 can expect to pay $1400-2500 per month in premiums for a plan that has a $6850 per person deductible and a $13,700 family deductible. As you can see using basic math it isn't very hard to reach 25% of one's income just for healthcare. If anyone doubts my numbers, send me a pm and I'll be happy to run a quote and provide evidence.

Obamacare took a broken system and made it worse. The GOP plan doesn't solve anything either. Nothing is going to help until the cost of care is lowered. Pharma claims it takes $2.56 BILLION to get a new med to market in order to justify a 7 year monopoly and the ability to charge outrageous prices. Same goes for medical equipment.

Trump and the GOP need to change tacts if they really want to address the issue which is cost of care. Insurance companies have already had a cap put on their operating expenses and profit. Now it's time to address the issue through reduced regulations, streamlined FDA approval system, more competition, education, prevention of disease and better nutrition.

[LucasMcCain]

So what is there to hate so much?

It is another Socialist plan that has no business being controlled by the Federal Government. Nowhere in the Constitution, is there a place that says, that health insurance is a right. It should be completely controlled by the free market. It is a redistribution tax, that requires those who can afford their own insurance, to also pay for those who can't. It is just another entitlement program, that is bankrupting the country already. Despite it's origins, it is not a workable plan. Most people don't realize that one of the ways it was passed so quickly, was that members of congress are exempted from the plan, which should tell everyone something about its worthiness.

Very well said Jusme. Obamacare is a socialist trojan horse. It promises to make your life better if you just give more power to the government. Because that always works out sooooo well, right? Under Obamacare, my wife's insurance dropped coverage for spouses because their costs had gone up so much. So I got insurance through my work, which was more expensive to begin with, and it promptly went up as well. The coverage got dramatically worse, costing me thousands of dollars more for the treatment I received last year than I would have paid under my previous plan. It's garbage. What's worse is that the ACA was designed to fail. It's clear, if you actually understand the way all the aspects of healthcare work on a national scale, that it was never intended to work. It was designed to make the situation worse so that the people would welcome true socialized healthcare when it was pushed for by Hillary.

Source: A friend of mine is in a high level position within a major healthcare organization, has actually spoken before congress on the issue, and I have spoken with her at length on the subject. If you want to see what healthcare reform should actually look like, read up on Accountable Care organizations. Combined with other approaches, that's what will result in better care and lower cost.

That said, if anyone wishes to continue this discussion, let's make a separate thread instead of derailing this one. (I realize I'm just as guilty of doing so.)

[G26ster]

Nuts,
Unfortunately your experience is not uncommon. One thing you said that I may tend to disagree but don't have hard stats to base an argument on is the 20 million additional insured as I believe that is just overinflated gov propaganda. However, the rest of your post is on point as far as I can tell.

People that qualify for subsidies, medicare and Medicaid have no real clue just how expensive and cost prohibitive medical insurance is for those that work or own a business and do not qualify for gov subsidy.

Here's a real life scenario that is very common. A family of 4 with a household income of $98,000 can expect to pay $1400-2500 per month in premiums for a plan that has a $6850 per person deductible and a $13,700 family deductible. As you can see using basic math it isn't very hard to reach 25% of one's income just for healthcare. If anyone doubts my numbers, send me a pm and I'll be happy to run a quote and provide evidence.

Obamacare took a broken system and made it worse. The GOP plan doesn't solve anything either. Nothing is going to help until the cost of care is lowered. Pharma claims it takes $2.56 BILLION to get a new med to market in order to justify a 7 year monopoly and the ability to charge outrageous prices. Same goes for medical equipment.

Trump and the GOP need to change tacts if they really want to address the issue which is cost of care. Insurance companies have already had a cap put on their operating expenses and profit. Now it's time to address the issue through reduced regulations, streamlined FDA approval system, more competition, education, prevention of disease and better nutrition.

I'll take exception to one thing you said, "People that qualify for subsidies, medicare and Medicaid have no real clue just how expensive and cost prohibitive medical insurance is for those that work or own a business and do not qualify for gov subsidy."

That's not true. How do you think many of us on Medicare got here? Many of us ran businesses of our own at times without insurance, many of us worked for companies at times that did not provide it, and Medicare doesn't cover everything, and even Medigap supplements don't either. We know full well how the private system works vs. the gov't system works. There are many state of the art procedures that might be necessary in later life that private insurance covers and Medicare doesn't. Even if I offer a doctor, hospital or surgeon to pay out of pocket, they can't, by law, accept as long as one is on Medicare. If it's not covered by Medicare you don't get it done. With cancer, I have spent many thousands of dollars out of pocket for what Medicare doesn't pay, which would have been paid in full when I had private insurance before I retired. So many of us have a real "clue."

[mojo84]

G26ster,
If everyone understands, why did Dale make the comments he made?

I understand and accept your perspective. However, those that haven't had to deal with paying for insurance and not having insurance the last couple years under Obamacare do not truly understand since they haven't experienced it first hand. There things in life one cannot understand until they've experienced it themselves. This is one of those situations.

If you take my comment in context as a response to Dale banker, my comment stands. You can't take my response to someone that said what Dale said and apply it to everyone out there. It also helps to not take people's comments out of context. I understand Medicare isn't the utopia some try to make it out to be. However, I cannot understand what it's like being on Medicare because I haven't experienced it. I do know what it's like spending over $1400 per month on health insurance out of my pocket and then having to meet a $6850 deductible. Do you?

Nonetheless, Trump ran on repealing and replacing Obamacare during his 1st term. What's on the table right now does neither. Nor does it address the real issue.

[Abraham]

On a side note: As a kid of the 50's, we didn't worry about health care.

Why?

If you got sick, you went to the doctor. Pay as you go...

Of course, as a kid, I didn't think about health care as I was gifted with great health.

Now, it seems many are obsessed with health care to the point of nuttiness...

I don't mean to sound flippant, but to a degree this whole mantra of agonizing about health care seems slightly OCD-ish.

My take: Go without healthcare. If you get sick, go to a doctor and pay as you go. It'll be wayyyyyyyy less expensive overall. If you must go into the hospital, those charges can be negotiated immensely.

This philosophy isn't for those with current, dreadful disease or conditions, just those who're relatively healthy.

Yeah, I know some of you will do the "the sky is falling" when considering going bare, but life isn't without risk and it seems to me everyone wants some sort of guarantee while claiming: "hey man, I hate socialism, ah, ahem, unless it's a good deal for me....)

[G26ster]

G26ster,
If everyone understands, why did Dale make the comments he made?

I understand and accept your perspective. However, those that haven't had to deal with paying for insurance and not having insurance the last couple years under Obamacare do not truly understand since they haven't experienced it first hand. There things in life one cannot understand until they've experienced it themselves. This is one of those situations.

If you take my comment in context as a response to Dale banker, my comment stands. You can't take my response to someone that said what Dale said and apply it to everyone out there. It also helps to not take people's comments out of context. I understand Medicare isn't the utopia some try to make it out to be. However, I cannot understand what it's like being on Medicare because I haven't experienced it. I do know what it's like spending over $1400 per month on health insurance out of my pocket and then having to meet a $6850 deductible. Do you?

Nonetheless, Trump ran on repealing and replacing Obamacare during his 1st term. What's on the table right now does neither. Nor does it address the real issue.

I didn't say "everyone." I responded to the comment you made in a reply to Nutts, not Dale. You said "People that qualify for subsidies, medicare and Medicaid have no real clue..." To me that meant most or all people. I believe that most people on Medicare do have a clue. Maybe not under Obamacare, but they have run their own business and paid their own full health care costs, or been employed without medical benefits. I'm not defending Obamacare or its proposed replacement. Just commenting that we DO have a clue.

Edit to add: Is the $1400 per month on health insurance out of your pocket, and then having to meet a $6850 deductible, for just you or for your entire family?

[bblhd672]

[mojo84]

G26ster,
If everyone understands, why did Dale make the comments he made?

I understand and accept your perspective. However, those that haven't had to deal with paying for insurance and not having insurance the last couple years under Obamacare do not truly understand since they haven't experienced it first hand. There things in life one cannot understand until they've experienced it themselves. This is one of those situations.

If you take my comment in context as a response to Dale banker, my comment stands. You can't take my response to someone that said what Dale said and apply it to everyone out there. It also helps to not take people's comments out of context. I understand Medicare isn't the utopia some try to make it out to be. However, I cannot understand what it's like being on Medicare because I haven't experienced it. I do know what it's like spending over $1400 per month on health insurance out of my pocket and then having to meet a $6850 deductible. Do you?

Nonetheless, Trump ran on repealing and replacing Obamacare during his 1st term. What's on the table right now does neither. Nor does it address the real issue.

I didn't say "everyone." I responded to the comment you made in a reply to Nutts, not Dale. You said "People that qualify for subsidies, medicare and Medicaid have no real clue..." To me that meant most or all people. I believe that most people on Medicare do have a clue. Maybe not under Obamacare, but they have run their own business and paid their own full health care costs, or been employed without medical benefits. I'm not defending Obamacare or its proposed replacement. Just commenting that we DO have a clue.

Edit to add: Is the $1400 per month on health insurance out of your pocket, and then having to meet a $6850 deductible, for just you or for your entire family?

I'm not going to argue about what I said or to whom it was directed. I quoted the person you mentioned but my comment also addressed the other poster's comment asking why people are upset. He indicated he is in Medicare. Context is important.

Yes, the $1400 is out of my pocket per month for premiums for a family of 4. The $6850 is out of my pocket for deductible per person up to two people. Have you paid similar premiums and deductibles? If not, I do not believe you can fully appreciate the current situation.

I have many current and former clients that have elected to go bare because they do not qualify for subsidy, medicare or medicaid and cannot or will not pay that much.

[mojo84]

On a side note: As a kid of the 50's, we didn't worry about health care.

Why?

If you got sick, you went to the doctor. Pay as you go...

Of course, as a kid, I didn't think about health care as I was gifted with great health.

Now, it seems many are obsessed with health care to the point of nuttiness...

I don't mean to sound flippant, but to a degree this whole mantra of agonizing about health care seems slightly OCD-ish.

My take: Go without healthcare. If you get sick, go to a doctor and pay as you go. It'll be wayyyyyyyy less expensive overall. If you must go into the hospital, those charges can be negotiated immensely.

This philosophy isn't for those with current, dreadful disease or conditions, just those who're relatively healthy.

Yeah, I know some of you will do the "the sky is falling" when considering going bare, but life isn't without risk and it seems to me everyone wants some sort of guarantee while claiming: "hey man, I hate socialism, ah, ahem, unless it's a good deal for me....)

Your comparison is silly and disingenuous. The cost of care has far exceeded the rate of inflation. Back in the 50's a cancer diagnosis usually meant you were going to die soon. Now it means you are going to incur several hundred thousand dollars in care before you are cured or die.

The cost of care is what makes medical insurance such a critical item. Let me ask you, If you didn't have Medicare would you not be concerned?

Insurance isn't socialism. It was designed as a method to spread risk among those that voluntarily made the decision to participate in order to defray and finance healthcare costs.

[G26ster]

G26ster,
If everyone understands, why did Dale make the comments he made?

I understand and accept your perspective. However, those that haven't had to deal with paying for insurance and not having insurance the last couple years under Obamacare do not truly understand since they haven't experienced it first hand. There things in life one cannot understand until they've experienced it themselves. This is one of those situations.

If you take my comment in context as a response to Dale banker, my comment stands. You can't take my response to someone that said what Dale said and apply it to everyone out there. It also helps to not take people's comments out of context. I understand Medicare isn't the utopia some try to make it out to be. However, I cannot understand what it's like being on Medicare because I haven't experienced it. I do know what it's like spending over $1400 per month on health insurance out of my pocket and then having to meet a $6850 deductible. Do you?

Nonetheless, Trump ran on repealing and replacing Obamacare during his 1st term. What's on the table right now does neither. Nor does it address the real issue.

I didn't say "everyone." I responded to the comment you made in a reply to Nutts, not Dale. You said "People that qualify for subsidies, medicare and Medicaid have no real clue..." To me that meant most or all people. I believe that most people on Medicare do have a clue. Maybe not under Obamacare, but they have run their own business and paid their own full health care costs, or been employed without medical benefits. I'm not defending Obamacare or its proposed replacement. Just commenting that we DO have a clue.

Edit to add: Is the $1400 per month on health insurance out of your pocket, and then having to meet a $6850 deductible, for just you or for your entire family?

I'm not going to argue about what I said or to whom it was directed. I quoted the person you mentioned but my comment also addressed the other poster's comment asking why people are upset. He indicated he is in Medicare. Context is important.

Yes, the $1400 is out of my pocket per month for premiums for a family of 4. The $6850 is out of my pocket for deductible per person up to two people. Have you paid similar premiums and deductibles? If not, I do not believe you can fully appreciate the current situation.

I have many current and former clients that have elected to go bare because they do not qualify for subsidy, medicare or medicaid and cannot or will not pay that much.

Not an argument, so don't take it that way. Yes, context is important. My only issue with your comment was about people on Medicare being clueless. That's just not so in all cases. Just because we don't have the same expenses you have, we still have expenses. It does not mean we are clueless. We have family, and friends that are experiencing the the same grief that you are under Obamacare, and we are up to date with the news. You asked if I paid similar premiums or deductibles. Answer right now is no, but that has no bearing on whether I'm clueless or not. It's not rocket science to understand you have steep monthly premiums and a huge deductible. I don't have to be in your shoes to appreciate your situation, anymore than you have to be in mine to know that cancer is deadly and expensive. I sincerely hope that Obamacare goes away, and insurance becomes more affordable for you and your family. Unlike Obamacare, which has been headline news for 8 years, Medicare is a mystery to many because they believe it's free healthcare, just like people believe all veterans get free healthcare by the VA.

[mojo84]

I think Dale Blanker and Abraham substantiated my comment. It's like telling someone you know they feel when they've lost a spouse or child and you haven't. There is a difference between knowing about something and experiencing it.

Even Medicare is unsustainable without getting cost of care under control. Here is some sobering data.

http://www.healthsystemtracker.org/inte ... cket&tab=1

http://www.healthsystemtracker.org/inte ... ures&tab=0

One of the great things about country and it's Constitution is that people have the right to express opinions whether they know what they are talking about or not. Similarly, wevhavevthe right to challenge those folks.

Trump and the GOP must focus on cost of care or even you folks in medicare and Medicaid will be out of luck and experiencing what many of us are.

[ninjabread]

It's starting to look like Repeal and Replace means replace with something even more socialist.

Maybe, but I've never quite understood the hatred for Obamacare. I'm on Medicare and so have little first hand knowledge of ACA

It seems quite obvious to me why you don't understand. However, I'm not sure how to make you underestand without you walking a mile in our shoes.

[G26ster]

I think Dale Blanker and Abraham substantiated my comment. It's like telling someone you know they feel when they've lost a spouse or child and you haven't. There is a difference between knowing about something and experiencing it.

Even Medicare is unsustainable without getting cost of care under control. Here is some sobering data.

http://www.healthsystemtracker.org/inte ... cket&tab=1

http://www.healthsystemtracker.org/inte ... ures&tab=0

One of the great things about country and it's Constitution is that people have the right to express opinions whether they know what they are talking about or not. Similarly, wevhavevthe right to challenge those folks.

Trump and the GOP must focus on cost of care or even you folks in medicare and Medicaid will be out of luck and experiencing what many of us are.

"There is a difference between knowing about something and experiencing it."


True in many cases. If true though, how do you know exactly what people on Medicare know or feel about Obama care? Your not on Medicare, you haven't lived their lives. Maybe they were on Obamacare before Medicare. We weren't born on Medicare. Most in our families are not on Medicare, they're on Obamacare. They experience the same pain as you. We have transitioned from either private healthcare or no healthcare. You don't have to be told "You have cancer" to understand how devastating that news is. Like I said, it's not rocket science to understand the pain of a $1400 mo. premium and a $6850 deductible. Sorry, I don't equate knowing the feeling of the loss of a child or spouse to understanding that those premiums and deductibles suck, any more than if you told me you pay $5000 a month for a one bedroom apartment in Texas. I don't have to live there to understand. Outrageous is outrageous.

[Jusme]

I can't speak for anyone besides myself. The insurance lobbies, have corrupted so many politicians over the years, that they have created mini monopolies. Can anyone give me a logical reason that we cannot purchase health insurance from another State? Is there another consumer product that is so limited?
We can even buy guns from out of State vendors.
I can order wine, beer, and so many other things from out of State vendors, but the insurance carriers have grabbed lawmakers, by the short hairs and, determined that insurance must be sold only within the state that a person lives.
Just food for thought.