state fair carry?

CHL discussions that do not fit into more specific topics

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carlson1
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#46

Post by carlson1 »

KBCraig wrote:With the new CHL privacy law in place, wouldn't it be illegal for the police who copy down your info to provide it to anyone who doesn't have a valid law enforcement reason to access it?
Great question because the last time I went through it was not an LEO or at least he did not identify himself as LEO riding on a golf cart needing a haircut. :grin:

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#47

Post by KBCraig »

I would decline to give my info to a non-LEO.

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#48

Post by BrassMonkey »

Me too. Do you buy your tickets before or after the metal detector? If before, I would walk my happy self right on past if it was not a cop. Of course, they would be there shortly I am sure...
KBCraig wrote:I would decline to give my info to a non-LEO.
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seamusTX
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#49

Post by seamusTX »

KBCraig wrote:With the new CHL privacy law in place, wouldn't it be illegal for the police who copy down your info to provide it to anyone who doesn't have a valid law enforcement reason to access it?
I think the law applies only to DPS.
GC §411.192. CONFIDENTIALITY OF RECORDS. (a) The department [DPS] shall disclose to a criminal justice agency information contained in its files and records regarding whether a named individual or any individual named in a specified list is licensed under this subchapter. Information on an individual subject to disclosure under this section includes the individual's name, date of birth, gender, race, and zip code.
If another agency or individual becomes aware that you have a CHL, there is no obligation for them to maintain confidentiality.

BTW, there's another law that I tend to forget about:
GC §411.178. NOTICE TO LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT. On request of a local law enforcement agency, the department shall notify the agency of the licenses that have been issued to license holders who reside in the county in which the agency is located.
Your police chief or sheriff could obtain this information and give it to a newspaper. They might be nuts to do so, but it appears to be allowed.

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#50

Post by CHL/LEO »

I waited about 10min
I'm surprised that you had to wait at all as there is a Dallas PO stationed at every entrance gate...
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#51

Post by XDgal »

DPD doesn't take the info, a State Fair official does. It took me 9 minutes to go through the ritual last year. The offical told me there are only three or four on duty at a tme who take this info and they go from gate to gate when needed. Brassmonkey, they wand you before you get to the ticket window. In fact, when I got, there the wand person was the first person I came to. I showed them my CHL, they gave me a blank look and wanded me anyway. It was the very loud beeeeeeep that got the head gatekeeper over ( very quickly!) and he summoned the official after seeing the CHL. I didn't see any DPD at the gate itself, everywhere else, but not at the gate. I do plan on packing again this year.
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#52

Post by KBCraig »

Heh. It is worth noting that my participation in this discussion is academic, because you could not pay me to slow down, much less park, within five miles of Fair Park and the State Fair of Texas.

The first step of de-escalation is conflict avoidance. We often see CHLs say that "if I think I might need a gun there, I wouldn't go". I can't imagine a part of DFW where you are more likely to need a gun, than between your vehicle and the fair.
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#53

Post by carlson1 »

KBCraig wrote:Heh. It is worth noting that my participation in this discussion is academic, because you could not pay me to slow down, much less park, within five miles of Fair Park and the State Fair of Texas.

The first step of de-escalation is conflict avoidance. We often see CHLs say that "if I think I might need a gun there, I wouldn't go". I can't imagine a part of DFW where you are more likely to need a gun, than between your vehicle and the fair.
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#54

Post by Dragonfighter »

Hi all,

New to the group but thought I would add to the conversation. It seems that increasingly the government is afraid of its citizenry...but that is an aside.

Prior to 9-11 there were no metal detectors. There were signs scattered about but they did not comply with the effective notice parameters. The "official" DPD policy then was one of don't ask, don't tell. If it became an issue you would be asked to return the weapon to your vehicle.

2001 was the first year I recall metal detectors. As it has already been discusssed, the "search" is by private contract, admission is under the doctrine of "implied consent to search" (like the signs warning that all bags and briefcases are subject to search in sensitive buildings). The contract employees are not the "best and brightest". The first season they prohibited CHL, they had a shooting on the midway. The DPD response was still to be a request to return the weapon to the vehicle. I carried evry time with little trouble. Once with the Glock in a belly band, I was also being monitored for dysrythmias. When the wand squealed I simply lifted my shirt and told him "heart monitor". A deer in headlights look came accross his face with seeing all of the wires and he waved me through. Every other time they either did not detect or did not zero in on the source.

When the state law changed to allow CHL, the first year was great. I once had to show the cop at the gate because the wand person truly had no idea what to do. The cop rolled his eyes in the direction of the security girl and chatted with me a bit before wishing me a good day. The rest of the time they looked and shrugged and on I went.

The next year was horrible. Long wait times, enduring assinine statements by gate personnel and curmudgeonly response by the security supervisors. Two particular instances come to mind:

  • Got there midday and went to the East gate, near the barns. I presented my CHL to the wandman and he said, "Let me see it," meaning the weapon. I refused and explained we would be in violation of the law. I instructed him that he was to escort me to the gate supervisor and have them contact a security supervisor. He announced to his partner and the whole line, "I have to walk this guy up, he's got a gun!" My wife was just passing through the gate and thought, "Oh he didn't just holler that." The rest of the people just rolled their eyes. The supervisor took a while and apologized. I told him what happened and he paled. He said that he would pull this "yo-yo" and retrain him.

    The next time was worse IMO. We got there about 11:30. I presented the card and was escorted to the gate supervisor. My family went on through. He called for the supervisor and then decided to get all political on me and exuded the woes of society because of guns. He boasted the police ratio was higher per capita than any where else in the United States. When he finished I asked him how the police were to detect and prevent an attack on my family, whether they were changing to remain after 22:00 or leave as per usual practice. I asked whether I would be escorted to my vehicle and whether they would be stationed at every intersection to prevent car jacking. I also rattled off a few statistics about answering on the MICU in the area and the ones I made within the park. My wife came to see what the holdup was and I told her no one had come and "Mr. Whatever" had decided to get political. She went to the security HQ and found all of the supervisors (four) sitting at a break table, she complained to their boss. Before she got back one rolled up with a visible attitude. After he took the information and before returning the card, he decided I needed to be lectured as one would a child. He vehemently warned against "heroics" and getting involved with PD activities. When I tried to interject he became angry and yelled,"Let me finish." Once he did with a, "DO YOU UNDERSTAND?" I took my license and then very calmly entered into my own dissertation. I said,"Sir, I am (something in the middle aged category). FYI to obtain a CHL one must have a record more immaculate than that required to become a peace officer. Further, I have either been a soldier, a patrol supervisor and a firefighter paramedic all of my adult life. Much of my service with Dallas has been answering in this area the various shootings, rapes and aggravated assaults that occur multiple times a day. Some even inside the park. So I will protect my family and in the meantime you do not need to lecture me on the operations of the DPD or the consequences of Deadly Force. Do you understand?" He frowned and hissed, "Have a nice day."
I was hot, I wrote an email and a certified letter to the fair management. I listed the experiences and suggested several alternatives to then current practices. It and what had to have been multiple such letters has evidently had an impact. They now respond relatively quickly, apologize when delayed and make no comment except, "Thank You", "Enjoy the Fair" or "Have a nice day." This will be the third year since the changes...we'll see how it goes.

What I have learned:
  • Get there early if possible and park at the Grand Ave or MLK parking; faster service and better clientel overall (Sometimes they don't check or don't care).

    Have the family go ahead and meet at a predesignated place or contact on cell phone. There is no reason for them to have to wait.

    I carry a pocket notepad and record the names, ETA's and general behaviour of the responding supervisor. This helps if you need to write later and may curb the attitude if one is forthcoming.

    Be courteous, these guys are the messenger not the policy maker. For present the procedure is a cost of admission. Politeness can make it relatively painless.


Oh yeah, glad to be on the list.

Kyle
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Crossfire
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#55

Post by Crossfire »

Kyle,

Sounds like you have it all figured out. Welcome to the forum, and thanks for your contribution!
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carlson1
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#56

Post by carlson1 »

Kyle welcome to the Forum. I enjoyed your post and especially your signature line: 1Th 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

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#57

Post by CHL/LEO »

Kyle posted:
FYI to obtain a CHL one must have a record more immaculate than that required to become a peace officer.
I'm curious, where did you come by these facts?
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#58

Post by BrassMonkey »

Not sure about that particular statement, but a PD can hire whoever they want, criminals and all, if they write a letter to the state commision saying there is a workforce shortage, lol... Of course there is more to it then that, but that is the gist of it :-)
CHL/LEO wrote:Kyle posted:
FYI to obtain a CHL one must have a record more immaculate than that required to become a peace officer.
I'm curious, where did you come by these facts?
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#59

Post by NguyenVanDon »

That was a bad experience Kyle. Thanks for the story. I hope me and my uncle don't run into that problem this year while we are packing. For some odd reason, I have a bad feeling that one of these idiot security guard is going to give us a lot of trouble already... :mad: :mad: :mad:
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#60

Post by Dragonfighter »

Don't curse yourself. I think they have had additional training now and the last few times have been relatively trouble free. I will say this though, make sure you have a pocket notebook and pen to record who you talked to and when. If there is any trouble and you need to complain, dates times and names make a difference. Also, the mere presence of such a record will curtail the security supervisors' attitude if he's feeling froggy.

CHL/LEO

Having had to undergo several background checks for various reasons, I have some practical experience for my comparisons. You can have a PI on your record, you can owe alimony/child support and you can have an outstanding student loan and not be disqualified from law enforcement. All three will disqualify you (at least temporarily) from a CHL. Also, you can become a peace officer with a felonious deferred adjudication on your record, but no CHL. This is in the statutes to read and only a few of the differences.

I have personal and first hand knowledge of members of local law enforcement that have had their records expunged (as BrassMonkey has already elucidated) by the hiring agency. So aside from statutory comparisons there is the personal experience as well.

I hope this answers the question.
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