HB 560 - Holy Grail?

[mr1337]

How will this effect public schools? Will they be required to post 06/07 signs to keep guns out, if this passes as is?

Public schools would not be able to post 30.06/07 and would not be statutorily off-limits to LTC holders.

[ELB]

We and TFC may wind up being the only ones pushing hard for this Bill.

Chas.

So TSRA and/or NRA won't throw their shoulders to it? (and I mean hard, not just supportive words).

[Charles L. Cotton]

I have posted an article titled "HB560 by Rep. Springer: The Most Important Self-Defense Bill Since 2007" ...

Chas.

Very helpful!

One small typo nit: In the table "LTC less likely to commit a crime than the general public" the first line under that reads "21 less likely"; it should read "21 times less likely".

The section that laid out the current restrictions is very helpful to me as well.

good job.

Thanks, I fixed the typo.
Chas.

Found another typo.

Last heading before the conclusion:

HB560 does not prevent private property owners form prohibiting the carrying of handguns.

Thanks.

Chas.

[BeanCounter]

We and TFC may wind up being the only ones pushing hard for this Bill.

Chas.

So TSRA and/or NRA won't throw their shoulders to it? (and I mean hard, not just supportive words).

Several years ago, I called my State represented to ask if they supported bill so and such. My call was passed around the office until I spoke with his legislative aid. After a very tentative “yes”. He asked for my opinion on the (TRSA/NRA backed) bill. He seemed relieved that he gave the right answer and asked for an explanation of the bills impact.

I asked if they had been flooded with calls supporting the bill. “NO….You are the only one who has called.” The TSRA, NRA, TFC are made up of members. Their weight is people making calls, faxes, emails and dropping by to visit Senators and Representatives in Austin. Alice and Charles can’t do all the heavy lifting.

Now the truly stunning part of this story was that the legislative aid called me back a few weeks later to ask about another gun related bill. I am glad he called me and not some anti-gun organization like Texas Gun Nonsense.

[CleverNickname]

....LTC 21 times less likely to commit a crime than the general public"...

Another little data point I've read often, although I haven't seen a cite, is that "police officers are seven times more likely to commit crimes than LTC holders." Seems like this would make an effective point in a committee or on the floor, but I haven't heard anybody use it.

That ratio came from an Open Records Request I sent to TCLEOSE (now TCOLE) in 2013 for the 2013 Texas Legislative Session. I do not publish the written document I received and I quote from it sparingly. People try to claim I am attacking LEOs, but that's a lie. A "seven times" ratio is excellent.

I don't get the LEO data every session, only when I think it may be needed. I am going to get it for this session for obvious reasons.

Chas.

Is the crime data age-adjusted? I wonder if the difference is just from the difference of the average age of an LTC holder vs. the average age of a peace officer. I would assume the average age of a peace officer is lower, and younger people generally are less law-abiding.

[Charles L. Cotton]

....LTC 21 times less likely to commit a crime than the general public"...

Another little data point I've read often, although I haven't seen a cite, is that "police officers are seven times more likely to commit crimes than LTC holders." Seems like this would make an effective point in a committee or on the floor, but I haven't heard anybody use it.

That ratio came from an Open Records Request I sent to TCLEOSE (now TCOLE) in 2013 for the 2013 Texas Legislative Session. I do not publish the written document I received and I quote from it sparingly. People try to claim I am attacking LEOs, but that's a lie. A "seven times" ratio is excellent.

I don't get the LEO data every session, only when I think it may be needed. I am going to get it for this session for obvious reasons.

Chas.

Is the crime data age-adjusted? I wonder if the difference is just from the difference of the average age of an LTC holder vs. the average age of a peace officer. I would assume the average age of a peace officer is lower, and younger people generally are less law-abiding.

The DPS general population crime data is for people age 21 and over, so it is age-adjusted. If the crime data were to include people age 17 yrs to 20 yrs, the crime rate would be higher, but an accurate comparison to LTCs or LEOs would be impossible.

I don't do a comparison between LEOs and LTCs. The comparison is between LTCs and the general public age 21 and over. The LEO comparison is LEO to general population age 21 and over. Even if I did an LTC to LEO comparison, age-adjusting, beyond dropping people between the ages of 17 and 20, would be inappropriate. The issue is exclusion of LTCs from areas where LEO's can and do carry. Since LEOs of all ages can carry in those locations, age is not a factor.

Chas.

[they]

HB308 was a piece of the pie. HB560 is the whole enchilada (as far as carry locations go).

Awesome, thanks! Sounds like we need a full-court press on this one. I'm about to e-mail my state representative, although I know it will do no good because she's an ultra left wing lesbian liberal Democrat social justice warrior type. But she's going to hear from me on this.

Maybe she is a secret member of Pink Pistols.

I hope you're not trying to disparage the Pink Pistols - my husband and I should be the poster boys for why the 51% laws should be repealed after Pulse.

Long story short: if I can be a designated driver and not drink at a bar, why, oh why (Wizard of Oz reference there) can't I also be a designated carrier if I'm not drinking?

Or is our legislature THAT short-sighted?

Nevermind, I think you and they have already answered that question.

[mr1337]

HB308 was a piece of the pie. HB560 is the whole enchilada (as far as carry locations go).

Awesome, thanks! Sounds like we need a full-court press on this one. I'm about to e-mail my state representative, although I know it will do no good because she's an ultra left wing lesbian liberal Democrat social justice warrior type. But she's going to hear from me on this.

Maybe she is a secret member of Pink Pistols.

I hope you're not trying to disparage the Pink Pistols - my husband and I should be the poster boys for why the 51% laws should be repealed after Pulse.

Long story short: if I can be a designated driver and not drink at a bar, why, oh why (Wizard of Oz reference there) can't I also be a designated carrier if I'm not drinking?

Or is our legislature THAT short-sighted?

Nevermind, I think you and they have already answered that question.

There is no good reason, hence this proposed legislation.

[TreyHouston]

HB308 was a piece of the pie. HB560 is the whole enchilada (as far as carry locations go).

Awesome, thanks! Sounds like we need a full-court press on this one. I'm about to e-mail my state representative, although I know it will do no good because she's an ultra left wing lesbian liberal Democrat social justice warrior type. But she's going to hear from me on this.

Maybe she is a secret member of Pink Pistols.

I hope you're not trying to disparage the Pink Pistols - my husband and I should be the poster boys for why the 51% laws should be repealed after Pulse.

Long story short: if I can be a designated driver and not drink at a bar, why, oh why (Wizard of Oz reference there) can't I also be a designated carrier if I'm not drinking?

Or is our legislature THAT short-sighted?

Nevermind, I think you and they have already answered that question.

There is no good reason, hence this proposed legislation.

I 100% agree! who kills more in Texas, Drunk drivers or drunk LTC peeps? ok, let's look another way. Who kills more in Texas, sober drivers or sober LTC peeps? Why are LTC peeps singled out?

[allisji]

HB308 was a piece of the pie. HB560 is the whole enchilada (as far as carry locations go).

Awesome, thanks! Sounds like we need a full-court press on this one. I'm about to e-mail my state representative, although I know it will do no good because she's an ultra left wing lesbian liberal Democrat social justice warrior type. But she's going to hear from me on this.

Maybe she is a secret member of Pink Pistols.

I hope you're not trying to disparage the Pink Pistols - my husband and I should be the poster boys for why the 51% laws should be repealed after Pulse.

Long story short: if I can be a designated driver and not drink at a bar, why, oh why (Wizard of Oz reference there) can't I also be a designated carrier if I'm not drinking?

Or is our legislature THAT short-sighted?

Nevermind, I think you and they have already answered that question.

Welcome to the forum. Based on your comment, it appears that you support your right to bear arms. I hope that you are not just another "one-post" forum member. If you are a supporter of the 2nd amendment and your right to a self-defense firearm then you will find most on this forum to be welcoming to you and your husband. It's always good to have fresh perspectives such as yours on the self-defense related topics that we discuss here. So long the discourse remains civil, everyone follows the forum rules, and everyone respects each other's right to disagree.

[AJSully421]

This bill should be our only priority. Lt. Gov seems to be pushing for reduced or eliminated LTC fees... so we don't need to push too hard on that one IMO.

This will need to be pushed hard.

I have already contacted Konni Burton and Craig Goldman, and had my wife do the same. I will have my parents, in-laws, and sister and brother-in-law who have LTCs contact their reps as well.

[ELB]

Called Rep John Kuempel (Seguin). Person answering did not know if he had looked at the bill yet. Urged him to sign on to support it. Will stop by their office here in Seguin after Christmas and follow up with them.

[Soccerdad1995]

This bill should be our only priority. Lt. Gov seems to be pushing for reduced or eliminated LTC fees... so we don't need to push too hard on that one IMO.

This will need to be pushed hard.

I have already contacted Konni Burton and Craig Goldman, and had my wife do the same. I will have my parents, in-laws, and sister and brother-in-law who have LTCs contact their reps as well.

Even if this is the only pro-2A bill that passes, this session will be a success. There are a few other "nice to have's", but those are all minor in impact compared to this bill.

[Beiruty]

We need this HB 560 to pass. There is not a single reason it should not. Super majority and nothing wrong with the LTC populations.

[MeMelYup]

Hopefully it will be assigned to the right committee.